[FF977]

My Department recently has added an engine company to a mutual department in anticipation of consolidating with this other dept. The station does not have women's facilities and therefore I have been told I cannot work there. There are 19 stations in my dept, and I am sure they don't see this as a problem because they can put me 18 other places, but of course, this is not the issue. I have had a lot of problems with my dept, and I only have 4 years on, but I believe this needs to be addressed.

How can they get away with this? Is this not illegal?

[firething]

I think if you can show that everyone but you is getting a chance to work at that house, you would have a pretty strong discrimination case.

I'm in the same boat as you, except that most of the stations in my city lack separate facilities. I don't care if I share quarters. In fact I prefer it because I think it hurts camaraderie to have one person stuck off in a corner. I want to transfer to a busier house, but I frequently hear that I can't go to this place or that because the guys don't want to share facilities with me. Here are some actual things officers have said about me transferring to their stations:

"You can't get to the bathroom without going through the locker room."
"You can't go there, that's a MAN house."
"The locker rooms are open."
"You may not have a problem sleeping in the dorm, but our wives will have a problem with it."
"What will your husband think about you sharing a room with men?"
"Where will you sleep?"
"It's not proper to have women and men share a room."
"What if we have to decon (HazMat) and take our clothes off?"

Does this sound familiar to you? It's like they just think it's okay to discriminate against me.

It's gotten to the point where I DREAD going around to different officers to ask about transferring to their house. I never know what reaction I will get. A few have been positive, but I think if I hadn't had this one captain boxed in a corner, he would actually have run away from me.

It's not that I've been a problem employee either. I've gotten along with people, worked my butt off and performed well. I met the same standards as everyone else to get hired so they can't even hold that against me.

I have my fingers crossed that my department will do right by me. I have great officers and a great chief, so I hope they can help smooth my path. I don't know the top brass in my dept., but they at least seemed very supportive of having another woman join the department (now we're 3 of 350).

That being said, I read with interest about a recent court case in
Kansas City where two women ff sued because, among other reasons, they were not provided separate sleeping and bathing facilities in all the city's stations. They won, but the department wasn't ordered to immediately build facilities because one woman had retired and the other is an officer so has her own room and bathroom anyway. The department was ordered to develop a long-range plan to put facilities in all its stations.

I also read recently that FDNY has begun installing women's bathrooms in all stations. I guess this is because the federal government is investigating them for discrimination.

[FF977]

Isn't it really sad to think that it is 2006 and we still have to waste time and energy on these things? Gees. We can't even go to work without worrying about pissing someone off becuase we can't go to the bathroom without it being a big deal. (bad pun). And they don't learn. In my dept, we just built a couple brand new stations. All kinds of nice, new equipment and furniture, but what were they missing?...locks on the bathroom/locker room doors. Yeah, kinda important. It took almost an act of God to get them to install the stupid locks. Men are not allowed in the women's locker rooms, but ah...how certain captains look the other way. I am sure it has been no accident to find a toilet unflushed from someone looking for a private place to camp on the other shifts. I fantasize about leaving a tampon in thier toilet someday to see how they like it. [/i]

[dmfmfd136]

We have 5 stations...2 do not have female qtrs...two have the officers sleeping in them...the station I am at now is where I have my own. I have asked the same questions and get the same responses. I figure if they or their wives have an issue with me sleeping in the same room NOT the same bed...then its just that...their issue not mine.
Yes, I do believe its a form of discrimination. I read this exact stuff some place, but can't remember where or what it was. Go to google or dogpile and do a search. I would take the information to the higher ups and present it. Always, go prepared with a solution ...not just problems. They are willing to hear you out, but generally are not sure how to deal with it (if its all new to them) so they would be more receptive if you are willing to be a part of the solution and not the problem.

[crystal7]

I posted above under sleeping arrangement dilemma. There are no separate sleeping faciiites in any of the 16 firehouses in my dept. There are no separate bathrooms either...but they at least all have locks.

Our city is making it very clear they would like to see more minorities and women on the FD. One step in the right direction would be placing dividers in ALL of the bunkrooms. A few have them, most likely due to the company Captain, but it is not a dept. wide standard. My officer is helping me persue this situation.



Very interesting posts on this thread!

[stevielyn]

I've been having a few problems at my station. We have three women in the department right now and two of us are active.

I've been having issues with a few of the members and never said anything.
I had one life member keep grabbing me and leaving bruises all over my arms or trying to put me in the trash can. I had recently started seeing my boyfriend (from a different station). When i'd go home my mom would see the bruises or me crying in my room and thought it was him doing it. She asked who was doing it to me, then comfronted the guy. He finally stopped but nobody else seemed to get the point.
I couldn't hang out with anyone from the station away from a call due to everyone else spreading rumors of me sleeping with the other members. It got to the point where i stopped running for a few months. I recently started running more after a break (due to my boyfriend being suspended from his house) and now the battalion chief has started with me. He has always been one to yell instead of explain something and has intimidated me more than once.
Three weeks ago he freaked out at me after hearing me say, "I hope it rains on friday and saturday." (I'm lifeguarding for the summer and get paid when it rains.) I wasn't thinking that Saturday was the day of our bike run and didn't mean for it to rain on it. It got pretty bad by the end of the arguement and he put his arms around my neck and stated that sometimes he wants to choke me. I told the president because my boyfriend wasn't to happy about it. If i didn't take care of it, he would. I told the president that i wanted it to be over, to bring up no charges, and just have a talk with him. Last week we had a fast team call and one of the members was trying to say how to get there. The Battalion asked why he couldn't hear him and i said because he didn't have the headset on. He went off telling me to shut the f up. Of course i'll defend myself and said it back. He ended up saying," the fire department is a mans world, if you can't handle it then get out. I knew i shouldn't have left with this crew." I got pretty upset. He told me i wasn't allowed off the ladder when we got to the scene. I ended up calling a ride to pick me up because i felt threatened. I was told that he is more than likely bring up bylaw charges on me for a few things after hearing i was bringing them up on him. Right now, i'm not sure if i want to bring up bylaw charges on him, or go to a lawyer. I have to talk with the chief today in an hour. I know if i do bylaw charges he'll get away with it. Our fire deparment has 'clicks'. I don't want him to lose his job because he has a child.

[rllawson1]

Plain and simple-
Do not allow this type of behavior, and do what you can to change these types of attitudes. It is not acceptable now days. It is your choice not to say anything and I would understand, but They will do it to another person unless they are held accountable.
Good luck. Robin

[Bombera5522]

You have to do whats best for you!!!! If he loses his job that HIS fault not yours. HIS actions caused HIS dismissal not yours. Not matter what I will tell you the guys will not take your side(I hope some will) but it will always be your fault. I really feel for you but sometimes doing the right thing is the toughtest thing in the world. I can take anything but physical contact is where I draw blood!!
_________________
If you do your best, then no one can ask for more...but they will!!!!

[Bombera5522]

Cont. And what I mean by draw blood is CHARGES. I dont let my spouse physically hurt me he would be arrested, what makes him so different.
_________________
If you do your best, then no one can ask for more...but they will!!!!

[firething]

These guys should not be touching you like that. I know there can be physical joking, but if you say it should stop, that should be it. They sound like a pack of a-holes. If you don't stand up, things won't get better. Maybe they won't anyway for you, but maybe you'll help the next woman who comes along get better treatment. Maybe it would help to talk to someone in the government that oversees the department - the mayor, common councilors, commissioners, etc. People inside the fire department can see this behavior as "normal" because it's tradition. Outsiders are more likely to see it for what it is, harassment and intimidation. Please talk to someone outside the department.

[texasprincess]

Who you should be talking to is a police detective, not a lawyer. You need to press assult charges on your chief or on anyone who leaves physical marks on you. If he's grabbing your neck and saying he wants to strangle you, a subordinate, imagine what he could be doing to his wife or his children. If you're worried about the police being in too tight with the fire department (like that ever happens) go to the DA or a neighboring police dept. That's the kind of action the needs to stop. How would it look if a member of the public saw something like that? What do you think the headlines will look like? Not wanting him to loose his job because your concerned about his welfare is pretty much battered woman's syndrome.
_________________
Don't hire women? Do you really want to rule out HALF the population?

[stevielyn]

I went to a lawyer and was told i can not do anything about this because we are a volunteer department. I have everything documented and the next time anything happens, i'll be going to the township and have him removed.

[mnfiregal]

I don't know if these people can help you. I am currently filing a discrimination case against a department that didn't hire me because I am a female. I have good lawyers who say I have a case. Before I found my lawyer I spoke with a nonprofit organization out of NY. They were also willing to take on my case. They may be able to help you. With them being nonprofit it may not matter if it's a volunteer department, they aren't after the money like other lawyers. Check them out. The website in legalmomentum.org I talked with a lawyer by the name of Gilian Thomas there. Her phone is 212-413-7534 and her email is . Good Luck to you.

[Rebekah]

Hi.
I worked for a department that had a station built in tht 40's, there was one bathroom consisting of one toilet, 1 urinal, 2 showers and 2 sinks that we shared. It was also adjacent to the beanery and the Dorm. The only seperation you had from the other beds were our lockers. The department took care of the doors in the restroom by putting a lock on each door, whenever the women had to use the facilities we locked both locks. We were a station of 4 at that time and it worked for us. They eventually built a new station in a different location and of course had seperate restrooms and seperate dorms. It was about 10 years before the new station was built.