[Alyssa]

I have a situation that I believe somebody on here might be able to give me some advice. I'm new here, I posted once before months ago about being sexually harassed by two of our probies, but that post seems long gone now. I'll start from the beginning, bear with me.

In January of '06 I was drilling at a new hotel site when two junior firemen forcibly touched me in less than dignified places and tried to restrain me. I went to the police to file a report, and brought the situation to my Chief immediately. He suspended the two firemen. I thought the situation was over, but it was just getting started. The Chief and the two that were suspended were good friends.

A few days later I responded to a two car, head on car accident. I was completely ignored by all who responded, including the Chief and other officers. I was denied orders and left to myself.

In March, I responded to a restaurant filled with smoke. I responded with the mini-pumper. I was again ignored by every fireman and officer on the premisis. I was denied orders. The Chief then told everyone privately, not over the air, to return to the station. I was left alone on the scene wondering where everyone had gone. I tried to call the Chief on the radio, he did not answer several of my calls. Finally, he answered in a scolding response that if I had been listening, I would know where to be. When I returned to quarters, I was again ignored by all.

On the 4th of July, rumors were circulating that I "had a problem" with everybody. They made jokes at my expense. In the parade procession I was placed in the back, away from everyone, and was not addressed. After the parade, I was not addressed.

In August, one of the firemen pled guilty in court to forcible touch and sexual harassment, amoung other charges that were not related. The other fireman fled the state, and was allowed to quit the company with no charges. (Direct violation of our by-laws and SOPs).

The last call I responded to was Sunday of last weekend. I am the company's only EMT and responded to a car vs. tree. I was caring for the patient when the paramedic arrived ahead of the fire trucks. Apparently the paramedic had passed the fire truck. I had been ignored up until the point when I simply said that the paramedic needed to get here because I needed him. At that point I was told by another firefighter "Don't you f**king start your s**t with me bi*ch" whereas another firefighter said "Why don't you just keep your f**king mouth shut and calm down" The Chief did nothing to stop them. He just glared at me. Another firefighter said to me "They should have knocked you on your f**king ass, bi*ch".

I don't know what to do anymore. They either ignore me, or are incredibly hostile. They embarrassed me in front of a patient and the paramedic. I have contacted a lawyer, but she says theres really nothing she can do because its a volunteer company. So just because its volunteer that gives them the right to treat me like that for simply trying to defend myself? What should I do? Please help. And Thanks in advance.

[texasprincess]

If I understand from what I've read on the EOE website volunteers are subject to equal opportunity laws, not to mention the law in general where sexual harrassment/assult is illegal regardless of whether it occurs in work environment or not.

Another thing to consider is firefighters know a lot of people. Especially when they work other jobs. You may want to consider going to a lawyer who is out of your region where the chances of them being connected to someone in the department is less. Even the equal opportunity office is not immune to these ties. Think about that when you contact them.

I'm not sure how that one guy was able to leave the state and get out of charges. Him leaving the department has nothing to do with whether or not charges are filed. That should be your decision. Again, LEO usually in tight with FD. If the chief is condoning or "ordering" people to retaliate against you file a charge against him and all the involved members. Retaliation is illegle.

I don't normally encourage quitting cause I'm freaking stubborn to no end. But you're in a dangerous situation. If it gets real on the fireground real fast you or someone else will get killed over their little "game". You might have to fight this one from the outside.
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Don't hire women? Do you really want to rule out HALF the population?

[baileydonk]

Alyssa,

I don't know what to say. What a horrible department, and a terrible Chief. Not even considering the rest of your post, the part about the language the other firefighters used to you in front of the patient at last weekend's MVA is just absurdly unprofessional.

Are there any other women on your department that you can talk to?

Who is above the Chief that you can complain to? In our department, if my Chief were that useless to me, I would go to the Commissioners - and if they would not listen to me, I'd go to the County Board of Supervisors.

The fire department's number one priority should be safety, and behavior and attitudes such as you have described are simply dangerous in so many ways.

I'd hate to see the way these yahoos treat their patients.
_________________
"Twat, quat, bitch, or twunt... Do your job the right way, and get called names you want to hear".

- Denis Leary as Tommy Gavin on "Rescue Me"

[Alyssa]

I've been to the Commissioners, I've been to the County Fire Coordinator. The Commissioners say that its not their problem. The CFC wants to stay out of it but told me "do what you have to do." I'm completely stuck.

The only other woman in the Company is the Chief's wife. I bet you can guess where she stands on the issue.

I went so far as to call FASNY, but they told me to go back down the line with the Commissioners and CFC. I'm reaching dead ends everywhere I turn.

Thanks for your support.

[baileydonk]

Maybe you need to say "to hell with them". Don't waste your time with this violent offensive group of morons. Sounds like a poor setup from top to bottom. You may want to serve your community, but your first responsibility is to yourself and your safety, and you're not going to be safe responding with them. Are there other volunteer departments you know of near you that have better reputations? I love being a volunteer FF, and if I could not do it here I would seriously consider moving to a district where I could be involved in a good department.

It's a shame that the public of your district has to rely on help from a system that is flawed.
_________________
"Twat, quat, bitch, or twunt... Do your job the right way, and get called names you want to hear".

- Denis Leary as Tommy Gavin on "Rescue Me"

[firething]

Alyssa,

Wow, you sure help me put my problems in perspective . Can you try again with a more progressive department? I'd file a complaint with any agency that will listen, and then get the heck out. What part of NYS are you in? I'm in Onondaga County.

[Alyssa]

Greene county.

Thanks for everybody's support. I'm trying to get there little by little.

[texasprincess]

How come progressive departments means they allow females? I hear that all the time. Someone recommended me for a job and said the chief was progressive so I could apply. (Unfortunately, the department was not so "progressive"). I would think progressive would be something like, they have serious training, are really pushing staffing and safety issues, are on the for front of firefighter safety and suppression technology and fire prevention. That's my opinion. I'm tired of progressive meaning they obey the law.
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Don't hire women? Do you really want to rule out HALF the population?

[baileydonk]

Yes, texasprincess, maybe instead of "progressive", we should be using the term "non-retarded"!
_________________
"Twat, quat, bitch, or twunt... Do your job the right way, and get called names you want to hear".

- Denis Leary as Tommy Gavin on "Rescue Me"

[Bombera5522]

Texas could you explain what you mean by that? I don't want to assume the wrong thing.
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If you do your best, then no one can ask for more...but they will!!!!

[baileydonk]

I'm thinking that texasprincess means that it's annoying to feel that you have to give a department/person credit for being "forward-thinking" or unusually open-minded, just because they treat women as equals.

It's like when people ooh and ahh about how wonderful it is that some men help with the laundry or change diapers or things like that around the house. Sorry, I'm not too impressed - I'd just expect that. It's a given to me, not something amazing.

Using words like "progressive" for a department that believes in equality seems to imply that INequality is the accepted "norm".

Which may very well be true... but it is a little sad considering what year it is.

Of course, Texas, please speak for yourself!

Sharon
_________________
"Twat, quat, bitch, or twunt... Do your job the right way, and get called names you want to hear".

- Denis Leary as Tommy Gavin on "Rescue Me"

[mdaeb]

[dmfmfd136]

WOW!! What an absurd remark!! How do you know what ALL women think?? Last time I checked, you wasn't in my head. I for one think its human nature for everyone to flirt to some degree. I would be willing to bet that MOST women don't do it work. You say they date their teammates as if they are the only one in the relationship. Am I correct if I interrept what you wrote to mean its not ok the women flirt and date their co-workers, but it is ok for the men? I always thought it took TWO to make a relationship? Why is it always the women's fault? As if the guys are innocent pawns in this game?? And the real reason SOME of the guys don't talk to her is because they don't have the balls to stand up for her in front of the guys. They know they would become the subject of their riddicule. Yes, I am speaking from expereince. I had some of "the guys" who would call me AFTER they part of the dailey "tribunals" (thats how they referred to it) where I was the main subject. I, being the bitch that I am, stood my ground, defending myself and "worse of all" talked back to them...all of which drove them nuts. Anyways, these guys would call afterwards and say how wrong the guys were and how they supported me. Well, where were they when I needed them to say that when the other jerks attacked me?? Sitting on the side lines, because they are too intimidated to stand up to the bullies.


As for the REAL issue and question here...have you tried going to the EEOC? Personally, I wouldn't give up if it's what you really want to do. If you are being vocal (you know "talking back") and can see some of them backing down, then (believe it or not) you are making progress. If its the same or worse...I say get the lawyer and to quote one attorney I spoke with "hit them were it hurts" ...which is their pocketbook! One thing I always keep in mind is that someone has to be the first. If what I go through here makes it easier for the future women, then it was worth it. Ultimately, you have to decide how much is too much.

[mdaeb]

[Dora]

Alyssa-
I'm sorry about your situation, guys are an amusement and the many things they do to handle a situation. That doesn't condone what they have done to you, that's inappropriate. I'm not too sure on how I would handle it other than probably finding another department that is more supportive of you being there. They are out there, it just takes awhile to find the right one. By the way, don't get infuriated by the hi-jacked thread, immaturity seems to flourish online.


mdaeb-
Lemme get this right, you are not a firefighter, nor have you ever been. Every thing you know about this profession and females being in it is based upon what your husband tells you? How are you able to pass judgment on something you have never experienced first hand? Seeing is not doing. Believe it or not some women do want to do this job for the job and have passion like you've never seen before. It is sad that they are not present at your husband's fire department, I would like you to question what sort of fire department he is working at. Also, curiosity has me baffled...if you do not approve of female firefighters, just what are you doing on this forum aside from trying to get a rise from people. Perhaps you are a very bored person? If that is the case, I suggest you work on your punctuation and spelling.
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How Much Deeper Would The Ocean Be Without Sponges?