[FireCali]

..

[baileydonk]

I have not heard any publicity at all about the EMS people who died that day in NY - only the firefighters and police. I don't think it is a matter of trying to leave the women out of the "memorializing". The focus has been on the fire and police, while there were obviously others who were helping in other ways who also lost their lives.

If there were female FF/Paramedics who died that day, I am assuming that their names appear on the memorials that list the fallen by name, and were read when the names were read yesterday morning. By virtue of being female, would those individuals deserve any MORE recognition than the hundreds of other individuals? I would say no.

I have heard a couple of times women say they are upset that there were not women (or not MORE women) there that day - on the victims list that day. What a moronic thing to think - upset that more women were not killed?!?! Every death that happened was a tragedy, and turning the tragedy into an equal-rights argument really pisses me off. This is not directed at you, FireCali, as you said nothing of the sort - it's just a short rant at certain other people I've heard.

As for the use of the word "fireman"... Personally, I try not to get too hung up on semantics. Our present Training Officer just can't stop using the term "firemen" even though our Chief and four of our FFs are women. But I know from the way he works with us and speaks with us that he considers us his equals - his tongue is just stuck in its old ways. I don't mind one bit if someone calls me a fireman. My mom takes great pride in saying "my daughter's a fireman", actually - and I'm sure not going to correct her! And we have that "fireman's prayer" hanging at our station - hey, that's what the guy who wrote it called it. If you want to write a new one called something else and use words like "spouse" instead of "wife", you go girl. I try not to sweat the small stuff... it's like when we have our annual fire department Christmas party and the Commissioners say a prayer before we eat - I'm not a Christian and I could get bent out of shape, but hell, I let them say their prayer and I sit there quietly but don't bow my head and close my eyes. Some of these things are just tradition, that's all. Some traditions are great, some are tedious or downright wrong, and others are just kind of silly.

Wow, sorry. I didn't mean to go on so long. I guess I got my undies in a bunch mostly over this sentence: "when you give your life for your country you shouldnt be labled as one of the numbers..." Equality means that - being equal, being one of the many. Not being singled out *because* you are a woman. In that far-too-long list of names of victims from that day, how many have been singled out to the public in any way at all? Except to those who knew them, they pretty much do each remain "one of the numbers".

Stay safe.
Sharon
_________________
"Twat, quat, bitch, or twunt... Do your job the right way, and get called names you want to hear".

- Denis Leary as Tommy Gavin on "Rescue Me"

[FireCali]

I guess I didnt write it correctly what I was saying is, they are like oh poor firemen oh poor policemen and you never hear about the women who were Paramedics or emergency workers who died that day. Heck I wish I could be equal, but that will never happen at least where I am, but if we are going to say poor firemen we need to acknowledge the other emergency workers who gave their lives that day right? Yes everyone's name is said and they are all equal, but what about all of the stories we hear? They are all about men...Sorry if I worded it wrong.

[baileydonk]

As I said, I haven't heard stories about ANY of the EMS people that lost their lives that day. But you know, you rarely do in general. The fire departments get more press - that is where the big "paying" drama lies when it comes to news stories. And the fact is that the fire department predominantly involved in the tragedy at the World Trade Center was, very predominantly, a male one.

Yes, I would love to see ALL the different departments who helped in different ways that day honored. But I hate to see moaning about the honoring that has occurred. The people who have had their stories told deserve that honor. They don't deserve to have anyone say "But you're all MEN!"

As time goes on, more stories will come out, more people will write books etc. Some of these stories will be from women, some from EMS personnel who were not firefighters, some who were "regular" people who tried to help their friends... Look for these stories and pass them on.

All I'm saying, FireCali, is tread carefully on the subject of the "poor firemen" of 9/11. The FDNY was shaken to its roots that day, and yes it's a male-dominated and masculine-tradition institution - mourning, perhaps, in a very male way?

Perhaps you can look for a way to pay attention to those forgotten groups that you would like to honor, but maybe it can be done in a positive way without making bitter reference to the "firemen". Because it will not go over well if it's done with an attitude of "enough of you guys, it's our turn now".
_________________
"Twat, quat, bitch, or twunt... Do your job the right way, and get called names you want to hear".

- Denis Leary as Tommy Gavin on "Rescue Me"

[FireCali]

Every life lost that day was precious but if it is true about the women from FDNY who were paramedics they were part of the fire department too right?
Does anyone know if this info is true?

[baileydonk]

Here's someplace to start:

http://womenshistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa020909a.htm

There are probably plenty of examples of open-minded press giving credit to men and women in fire/police/ems and other service groups that day. A few examples:

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060911/NEWS01/609110320

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ZgmoMY1zAxAJ:www.dfwairport.com/mediasite/pdf/03/dpstour_082103.pdf+EMS+women+9/11&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/05/national/main1968706.shtml

http://www.ny.gov/governor/press/04/may19_04.htm

And here is a book, I don't know how good it is, but I found the reference in a link I was following:
Hagen, Susan K. Women at Ground Zero : stories of courage and compassion, 313 pages. TH9505.N509 H34 2002

I think a lot of stuff is out there - you're just not going to see it on the mainstream news media.

Sharon
_________________
"Twat, quat, bitch, or twunt... Do your job the right way, and get called names you want to hear".

- Denis Leary as Tommy Gavin on "Rescue Me"

[Firelady7700]

Also less known is that women were among the firefighters, police officers and rescue workers. As the media kept talking about "firemen" and "policemen," the existence of these women became invisible. There might have been more: women (and minority racial groups) have long alleged discrimination that's kept many women from serving in the New York City police and fire departments. Among those who died were:

Captain Kathy Mazza, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department
Moira Smith, Police Officer, New York City Police Department
Yamel Merino, EMT
Other women who served survived, and some have told their stories. Some worked in their official capacity as police officers, EMTs and firefighters. Thousands of other women volunteered their time, as chaplains, as doctors or nurses, as rescue workers, bringing food or other supplies, helping neighbors left homeless, and in countless other ways. Here are a few of those who served officially, with some of their stories:
FDNY Lietenant Brenda Berkman, who has spoken out eloquently on the invisibility of the women of Ground Zero in media coverage
EMT Bonnie Jean Giebfried
NYPD Lieutenant Terri Tobin
FDNY Firefighter Maureen McArdle Schulman
this was off of: http://womenshistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa020909a.htm
_________________
If you don't have integrity, What do you have. Stand for something.

[Firelady7700]

a life lost is still a lost, it really does not matter the gender, I hope this helps, as the last person stated here is an excerpt from an article off hte internet.

Also less known is that women were among the firefighters, police officers and rescue workers. As the media kept talking about "firemen" and "policemen," the existence of these women became invisible. There might have been more: women (and minority racial groups) have long alleged discrimination that's kept many women from serving in the New York City police and fire departments. Among those who died were:

Captain Kathy Mazza, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department
Moira Smith, Police Officer, New York City Police Department
Yamel Merino, EMT
Other women who served survived, and some have told their stories. Some worked in their official capacity as police officers, EMTs and firefighters. Thousands of other women volunteered their time, as chaplains, as doctors or nurses, as rescue workers, bringing food or other supplies, helping neighbors left homeless, and in countless other ways. Here are a few of those who served officially, with some of their stories:
FDNY Lietenant Brenda Berkman, who has spoken out eloquently on the invisibility of the women of Ground Zero in media coverage
EMT Bonnie Jean Giebfried
NYPD Lieutenant Terri Tobin
FDNY Firefighter Maureen McArdle Schulman
this was off of: http://womenshistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa020909a.htm
_________________
If you don't have integrity, What do you have. Stand for something.

[Firelady7700]

a life lost is still a loss, it really does not matter the gender, I hope this helps, as the last person stated here is an excerpt from an article off hte internet.

Also less known is that women were among the firefighters, police officers and rescue workers. As the media kept talking about "firemen" and "policemen," the existence of these women became invisible. There might have been more: women (and minority racial groups) have long alleged discrimination that's kept many women from serving in the New York City police and fire departments. Among those who died were:

Captain Kathy Mazza, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department
Moira Smith, Police Officer, New York City Police Department
Yamel Merino, EMT
Other women who served survived, and some have told their stories. Some worked in their official capacity as police officers, EMTs and firefighters. Thousands of other women volunteered their time, as chaplains, as doctors or nurses, as rescue workers, bringing food or other supplies, helping neighbors left homeless, and in countless other ways. Here are a few of those who served officially, with some of their stories:
FDNY Lietenant Brenda Berkman, who has spoken out eloquently on the invisibility of the women of Ground Zero in media coverage
EMT Bonnie Jean Giebfried
NYPD Lieutenant Terri Tobin
FDNY Firefighter Maureen McArdle Schulman
this was off of: http://womenshistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa020909a.htm
_________________
If you don't have integrity, What do you have. Stand for something.