[Archived posts]

[Originally posted 5/3/06]

The volunteer department that I serve with has a few new female recruits, which has delighted me to no end. Recently the youngest of the bunch, which I adore, has started wearing "Daisy Duke" shorts to the firehouse, which of course has the guys talking (ie: ogling and making rude jokes). Should I mention the appropriateness of her attire to her?

I'm at the end of the probationary stage of my own career, so it feels inappropriate for me to take the lead on anything; however, I feel as if I owe this young firefighter the benefit of my experiences working in traditionally male-dominated roles, especially because I like her. But then I wonder if it's really my place to address this. ?? There aren't any other females in the department that will bring this up... they either don't get it or would rather have fun at her expense.

I've overheard a few of the male officers discuss that someone needs to talk to her but no one wants to take on the task. Thoughts and/or suggestions?

Thanks you in advance!

[Archived posts]

[Originally posted 5/4/06]


Do her a favor and talk to her, doesn't matter if you're a probie or have 9 years experience... sisters have to stick together and educate each other and I think it's a disservice to other women not to talk to her. We as women have worked hard to be accepted into the fire service and dressing in "Daisy Dukes" is going to set us back. Time and place is everything. All you have to say is, "It's ok to be a girl, just be one when you are not at the firehouse."

[ChiefCol]

While I am usually not a fan of being anonymous, I can certainly appreciate the position you feel you are in. Maybe a note, gently written, because she is young, expressing your concern and possibly she is unaware.
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Choose your battles Wisely, THEN WIN !

[ltmalinski]

We had the same problem with our Junior firefighters. Since the main offender refused to wear appropriate clothing even after being spoken to, we had to add to the Rules & Regs something about a 6 inch inseam on shorts. Oddly enough it was the guys complaining. It might help if you tell her how it impacts all of you, as women.

[protectNserve]

Thanks so much for the responses on this...it's been tossed around in my head more times than I care to admit. Last night was interesting though...

We went to a donated home to do vertical ventilation...lots of great practice came out of the evening, and I felt good about what we'd accomplished as a group. It was quite warm and we'd worked quite hard, so we quickly dressed down once the mess was cleaned up. The firefighter that I mentioned in my last posting, Becky, decided that she was not only going to remove her turnout gear, but also her tshirt...leaving her to prance (not an exaggeration) around in a white wife beater and pushup bra. As if that wasn't enough, when we got back to the station our officer said we wouldn't wash the truch because it was so late. To this Becky responded, "Let's wash the truck. I want to get wet!" UGH...

In light of this I've come to believe that Becky is aware of what she's doing and likes the attention that it brings. So now comes the difficult part, how do I deal with this?! Any more suggestions for me?

[Firefem]

I'm one of the senior advisors for our Explorer program. We were having some issues as well and it took me to hold a meeting with all (even the boys) present to discuss proper fireground etiquette. We also discussed how we are always in the public eye, and what we wear under our turnouts is important to mind because we do not want to get burned and we also don't want to end up on the news in our skivvies.

If it is only one person, and you are comfortable enough with her, remind her that we (women) are trying to make a difference out here, we are professionals and if she wants to earn respect among the guys she has to work for it, not work her body for it. One of our Captains the other evening took a newbie floozy aside and told her the story about how she started off on the wrong foot, dating a couple of the guys when she first joined. The rest of the guys gave her a very unplesant nickname and she was not only hurt, she had to work harder to get up to where she is today. It is everywhere, but it needs to stop if we want to keep moving forward in our careers.

Good luck to you and hopefully Becky will learn a valuable lesson before it is too late. Furthermore, thank you for caring to do something.
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Firefem-
"The only people to get even with are those that have helped you."

[firething]

I wonder if it would be good to have one of the guys with you when you talk to her. They're the ones she's trying to impress, so maybe it would be especially effective hearing from one of them why they don't think it's appropriate.

[Roselle Robak]

I am glad you are taking a leadership role and trying to step up. talk to the volunteer when you are alone, don't be judgemental, state that her attire is not professional and she represents the department at all times. It does require some risk on your part to speak up, but it is better if it comes from another woman tell her what she could wear under the gear at the next training....or keep a t-shirt handy in your gear bag, toss it to her, and say"Guess you forgot yours".
If that does not curb her attire problem, have the fire chief speak to her. The three women in our department "strip down" to gym shorts and t-shirts after taking off turnouts in the summer.
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Volunteer firefighter II, EMS,

[protectNserve]

We have drill tomorrow night...will let you know how it goes. Thanks so much for all of the support. You ladies are PRICELESS!

[protectNserve]

I'm happy to report that tonight was mostly incident free. In light of this it didn't feel right for me to say anything to her about the last few incidents. I figrue I'll just watch and see what happens.

Thanks again for all of your support with this! I'll keep you posted on how things go.

[smitty088]

I appreciate this topic. It is very interesting to me. I think that instead of the focus being on correcting this woman's dress. I think she should be challenged physically and mentally. I think she should be encouraged by other females and males to challenge herself physically and mentally. Then eventually she will forget about her dress and so will everybody else.

Just my

Tia Smith
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TT

[Rajsh]

I guess my first question would be if there is a written SOP on dress. I know I've fallen back on ours for a complaint of just the oppostie type -- males wearing extremely inappropriate t-shirts (ya know, the language and pictures). No one but me seemed to care that the clothes were completely inappropriate, but it said in the book they were, so who could argue?

(We're officially required to wear dept t-shirts to all training and calls. No one would call you out for wearing something else, like a plain t-shirt, of course, but that's the "rule.")

[protectNserve]

Sooo, Monday night was drill and all appeared to be going well until...

I left the firehouse around 10:30 to prepare my dress uniform for honor guard duty (we lost a sr member on Sunday...not LOD) and Becky had all of her clothes on, no low cut shirt or daisy duke shorts. We're making progress, thinks the naive older firefighter. At some point the conversation of tattoos came up and she was asked where hers were. I'm unsure if she was asked to show where they were after she pointed to their location, but she proceeded to stand up on a chair and pull her pants down to show the two located just above and adjacent to her crotch(apparently she held the center part up as best she could)! Now there were close to a dozen sr firefighters bearing witness to and encouraging this.

I am so disheartened...feel it may be time to leave this dept and do duty crew some place else. What kind of men, with children themselves, advocate this kind of behavior out of an 18 year old girl?! And what on earth can she be thinking?? I've considered saying something to the chief but there would be a lot of backlash towards me for taking away thier fun. Any thoughts on this?

[Old Fire Gal]

protectNserve --

I certainly understand your frustration with this. Here's my read on the situation, for what it's worth.

This is a very young woman who's getting lots of positive attention from a bunch of guys for behaving in a sexual way. Maybe that's the only reason she's there, or maybe she really wants to be a firefighter and just isn't "getting it" that their accepting her as a cute babe in Daisy Duke shorts is not the same as their accepting her as a firefighter (and in fact will probably be a barrier to that). A quiet, non-confrontational conversation with her might help you figure out which is the case.

As to "What kind of men... advocate this kind of behavior out of an 18 year old girl?" -- well, sorry; I'm a cynic. I think the majority of the adult male population, especially when functioning in an all-male group setting, would be happy to take part, even if somewhere in the back of their head, some of them thought, "Whoa, this is over the line."

A good fire chief would want to stop this now. The shorts were questionable at best; standing on a chair to show off tattoos in the vicinity of the crotch is clearly inappropriate. Do you think the behavior won't continue to get more outrageous? And do you think it will never become publicly known?

If you don't want to be the whistleblower (and I certainly understand that you may be risking a lot if you take on this role), see if you can find a male co-worker who agrees with you that this behavior is inappropriate, and who will go with you to talk with the young woman and/or the fire chief. But someone has to be the adult here. I truly see this as a bad situation that could rapidly become disastrous if no one will take the responsibility to stop it.

-- Old Fire Gal

[Marley]

I second everything Old Fire Gal said.

It seems to me that this is the sort of behavior that makes the newspapers. I'm fairly sure your chief wouldn't want that, and I'm guessing you don't want to be associated with a fire company with that kind of publicity. In paid departments, questionable photos trigger investigations that end careers.

And don't think someone won't be "smart" enough to bring a camera soon.

Another way might be to invite your chief to spend more time with his crew. If you can convince him to come down into the kitchen more often, maybe he'll observe the behavior as it happens. If he catches her showing off tattoos and short and curlies and he does nothing about it, then it sounds like it's time to move on.

If he sees it and stops it, then you're not directly involved.
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Marley
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Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it up. --Henry Ford