MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Seems to me you have several options.

You could say something to her in private. As politely as you can, you could ask her to come to you with her concerns rather than blabbing to all your classmates. Or, you could remind her that it's the instructor's job, not hers, to criticize student performance. Instructors want to see teamwork and people helping each other in a positive way. They don't want to see backstabbing.

Alternatively, it may be that if you lay low, take the high road, and just keep working your hardest to learn the proper way to do things, she'll self destruct without you having to say anything. Where I am, probies who are hypercritical of others often get a reputation of being a "2-20" (has 2 years on but acts like has 20) If she keeps that jerky attitude, she may find that some respected old Jake (or Jakette) will tell her she needs to get some shine on her pants before she opens her trap. What I've noticed is that probies who keep their minds open and mouths shut fare better in the companies than whiners and know-it-alls. I think that would be doubly true for women probies, since they're under special scrutiny and subject to all kinds of preconceived notions some guys have about women ff.

Sara

Captain Bob,

I just came upon your Station Visit one and I wanted to ask you a question. I dont act like I know it all, but I hate to say it; I am a talker I love to talk. I am very friendly but at the same time I do not like to boast about my accomplishments unless asked upon. My question for you is how do I stop myself from being a talker?

My fianc is a firefighter also but he has been in 8 years and he is just a quiet guy who keeps to himself so it was easy for him, but I was raised in a family that talks a lot and I can't stop myself...Please help me, I just started two weeks ago with as a volunteer and I really want to be successful there and have a good reputation so that when I go to get on with my dream departments.

D

Station Visits/Ride Alongs

Ride alongs can help or destroy you! Candidates want the opportunity to do ride alongs as a way of showing interest, gain information for their oral, and can say in their oral they had been to the stations. Often they dont know the culture and etiquette.

We had a candidate in one day for a ride along. He had an opinion on every topic that was brought up, including sports and the current movies. When it came time for lunch, he was the first one on his feet to fill his plate. His mother would have died from embarrassment.

Let me be blunt here. Dummy Up! You dont have enough time or experience to have an opinion! In this situation you have to be humble, have your questions already written down and realize you are a snotty nose rookie. Too many candidates come in wanting the badge so bad they act like they already have time and want to impress the guys with all of their knowledge. BIG ERROR!

This information will spread like wildfire and destroy you with those who will be making the decisions. Too many candidates tank themselves here and they never know what happened. This applies even if youre already a firefighter applying for another department.

Dont take the bait. Even if you have a friend in the station. If the guys want to joke around and play games, dont do it. You are not part of their family yet. You have no time or experience!

Some departments dont allow ride alongs during test time. If youre lucky enough to do a ride along, show up on time with a desert. Home made is best. If its ice cream, make sure its the round stuff; not the square stuff. We had so much square stuff during one of test we had a contest in the back yard to see who could throw the square stuff the furthest. After giving this information at a college fire program a candidate shows up at my station the next day. He didnt make an appointment, have desert, or have any questions ready. McFly?

One candidate told me in another class that he had made an appointment and had to wait a half hour when he got there. Poor baby. Understand this is our home. We spend more time at the firehouse than with our own family. So here you come waltzing into our home not knowing what to do.

If youre fortunate to get a ride along, stay for lunch if offered. Offer to pay your share and do the dishes. Leave before dinner (unless asked to stay) and never spend the night. You might interfere with the kick back time during and after dinner.

Should you go to as many or all the stations in a department? Please spare us this part. Dont turn yourself inside out trying to cover all of the stations hoping the word will get back that you did. It will make you look anal and compulsive. This will raise its ugly head in the psychological test if you get that far. One or two stations are fine. If you try to do them all, it only increases the chances of saying or doing the wrong thing or catching a shift of malcontents that will badmouth you.

If youre bent on doing a ride along, first make an appointment. During test time things get crazy. Be patient. Act like you would if you were the new rookie in the station.

Captain Bob

I do sympathize with you and couldn't imagine not being able to fight fire any more but... I believe this is the one profession that if you are unable to complete your responsibilities 100% you should change positions. There are too many dangers for you, your fellow firefighters and your community. I recommend getting into arson investigation, safety officer or public relations for your department. There are many roles you can fill with the department that are very important and fulfilling as well.

Has anyone had trouble finding gloves that fit? I wear a size small but the fingers are way to short and I can barely move my fingers at all. But anything bigger and they fall off.

Patti

This is a situation and profession where you will have to go face to face and nip it in the bud. You should take the high road and tell her that you not only are you aware of her snide remarks but you have witnessed her saying them. Remind her that putting someone else down and criticizing them not only makes her look bad but shows she has no future in a leadership role. If she were a true firefighter she would offer only constructive criticism and show you how to correct your mistakes. This profession is not survival of the fittest as advertised on shirts and bumper stickers. Its a matter of utilizing your sisters/brothers knowledge, common sense and experience. Always remember: All firefighter safety guidelines are written in blood, youre not to leave a fellow firefighter behind and pass on everything you have learned onto those coming up behind you.

Robin

I had the strange opportunity to observe a parade in rural Virginia a few months ago. In the parade several VFD's were represented. While I noticed that there were few (if any women) represented as firefighters with each VFD contingent, each one of these departments had a female that represented the Dept. as a beauty queen, i.e. Miss (fill in the blank) VFD. Living out West- I had never heard of a VFD beauty queen.
Is this an "East Coast Thing"?

Chief Mike

I appreciate your statements immensely. It is very helpful and thank you for the wonderful advice.

Respectfully,
Tia
Renton, WA

The children's museum in our city has provided space in their museum for a fire department exhibit. We are currently collecting fire memorabilia (pictures, uniforms, equipment, etc.) for the display. I would like to add something to the exhibit that shows the history of women in the fire service. Does anyone know where I can find copies of old pictures or any other memorabilia that depicts women firefighters?

Carrie

I am having the same issue if you go onto the fire glover corporation they can make you a custom glove. What you do is find a store in your area that is one of their dealers, then trace your hand and send it in and they will make you a custom glove. They also are the only company that makes cadet gloves, which are shorter in the fingers for us women. The number to the lady I spoke to is: (775) 724-4481 and her name is Missy. Also I forgot the name but there is a firefighter glove that they make that a lot of women buy because it is very durable. Good luck with finding the right glove I hope we both get out of this issue soon, because our hands we definitely need in this profession and when you can undo hose couplings or go to start the chain saw and it slips out of your hand you know that you have a problem.

Thank you for your information Robin, but I am still nervous to say something, because she is a lot older then me even though we are both on the same level. When she makes her remarks she will make them to where they could be taken as constructive criticism, but you know that she is trying to say you screwed up by the way she words it. I dont know if saying anything will make it worse or better. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this in the next week, because I am sick of how she acts like my friend to my face and then turns behind my back saying things.
D

Hi Beth,

I am currently a student at Texas A&M in Corpus Christi. However I graduated from Old Orchard Beach HS. Anyhow I was just interested in you point of view regarding women firefighters. Do you enjoy it? How did you come about it? Pro's and Con's? Would you suggest it as a possible career for young women? If so what are some of the first steps we should take?
-Thanks
Marissa

I am having an issue at the new department I work for. We have two women and we are the one's now going through training. I am one of them. I went through the fire academy with the 5 people that I am training with. The problem is the one other woman is gossiping behind my back. When we were training the other day I was doing something and turned my back to see her saying things to other people. When we get done with the training when no one is around she always says that I did something wrong with the training we did that day; it is never anything positive. To be honest I feel like this women is saying stuff and stirring up crap and I dont know how to stop it, I have been biting my tongue for a while now, but I dont like how I have to feel like an outsider because of her. What does everyone think? My other half says he has found many women in the fire service like to gossip so it is nothing new, but that isnt good enough for me. Any suggestions?

Hey Tom,

Thanks for writing back. I work for Biddeford. Sounds like you keep yourself busy. Good luck with your upcoming endeavor in school!

Beth

Does the volunteer dept. pay workmen\'s comp? If so then your state office and EEOC can get involved, as it is and can be deemed a workplace. You must have some kind of documentation, even if it is just a written statement you do that has collaborating witnesses. The state (which you have to go through first) and the EEOC will want to know how you wre treated differently in regard to gender, so you need a situation to compare your \"punishment\" to versus someone else's. It is not an easy or pleasant process and you must be prepared to be scrutinized. If there are some who will back you up then contact your state human relations office. You don't need an attorney to file a complaint, but it doesn't hurt (look for someone in employment law). Good luck, I've been through the process and will never be the same, but since then I've been reinstated, got my EMT, working on my EMT-P, and getting ready to pursue fire instructor 1. (I Got my firefighter 1 this fall and working also on firefighter 2. You can get past the situation.)

Pearce Thomas

Stress Busters
When I first became a fire officer I had to develop a stress management system as a matter of life and death. Because we never knew in the next moment where we were going. We could be part of someones worst day. I found that much of this same system worked in other careers and personal lives. Here are some Stress Busters:

Fire "Captain Bob" has two passions. One is putting out flames. The other is helping people extinguish stress so they can get more satisfaction and enjoyment out of their careers and personal lives.

* Take a piece of paper and draw a line down the center. On the left side, write down the stressors in your life that are inescapable. On the right side, list stressors you can escape. Just seeing and knowing things you have no control over reduces stress. Prioritize your escapable list.

* What is a "Dream Team?" A "Dream Team" consists of spouses, partners, friends, relatives, customers, employees and vendors. When people are under stress, they tend to withdraw and try to do more themselves. They are heading in the wrong direction. With "Dream Team" members, you go forward to resolve problem situations. "Dream Team" members will support you and make your life easier. Place them in the major areas of your life: Emotions (spiritual), physical body (health), relationships, business/career, and finance and wealth. Focus your energies and your dream team to eliminate those stressors you can escape. You'll end up doing more of the things you want to do.

* One of the big culprits caused by stress is people overdrawing their sleep banks. People who don't get enough sleep have lower productivity, more accidents, and are just grouchier folks. Some people don't know how it feels to be wide-awake or their old selves again. Americans are sleeping an average of 7 hours a night (a third sleep less than 6 hours) compared to 8.25 hours sleep experts say we need. Our bodies aren't fooled! You know you're not getting enough sleep if you fall asleep watching TV, in church, driving your car, at your desk, in a meeting or reading this article. Plug your dream team in to resolve your escapable stressors. You will get more sleep. "You know when you start feeling better when you think of homicide instead of suicide."

* People who are constantly under stress wear down their immune systems, have more illnesses of all types and are constantly angry and confused. But a study done by the University of Washington showed those people who maintained an active aerobic physical fitness program were virtually unaffected by health problems caused by stress. Their minds were redirected and produced wonderful endorphins. This can't happen if you're a couch or computer mouse potato.

* A good, healthy, stress free life depends on good thoughts. If you are a born pessimist, seeing everything as black, you will poison yourself and your relationships. No one wants to be with a living, black, negative cartoon. This is a bad habit you can change by your attitude. Attitude is such a small thing that can make such a huge difference. Attitude is your rudder through life. Practice not being negative for five minutes. Then, double the time. Keep doubling it until you break the habit. If you fail, start over. Once you can do this for twenty one days, your subconscious will be reprogrammed. You won't die! "Water a drop at a time will eventually float a whale."

Most people dont change because they see the light . . . They usually feel the heat!

Fire Captain Bob, Author

Hi Beth:

My name is Tom, I am 32 and run with Falmouth Fire/Rescue stationed with E-3. I am a Firefighter/EMT-I with over 20 plus years of Fire Service experience and 8 years of EMS experience. I also have assisted my Uncle with his Basic EMT classes over the years, as well as being an AHA CPR Instructor and State EMS Tester. In addition, I hold an AS Degree in Fire Science from SMCC and am working on getting into SMCC for AS in Nursing. I am also currently in the early stages of trying to enlist in the Navy Reserve as a Corpsman.

Our dept. has quite a few female EMT-B's, I's and Paramedics and a few are cross-trained as F.F.

What dept are you with?

Best of luck to you.

Tom

How long does it usually take to move forward to a CPAT testing? I have taken two written tests thus far I have passed one.

Tia

Younger candidates have credentials too!

Here's a Question from a similar candidate:

Capt. Bob,

Just recently, I began testing for fire departments in California (Predominantly Southern California). I am a fire academy graduate and I have two years of experience on a basic life support ambulance.

I am also currently testing for auxiliary and volunteer positions for added experience and my firefighter 1 cert. In January, I'm planning on going to paramedic school. My question is this... I'm only 20-year old- I won't be 21 until August. Does being this young hurt me whether or not I shine on my written and oral tests?

I don't see too many rookies this young with departments and I don't hear about people being hired this young. Just curious.

LCM.

Reply:

As long as you can present your package at the oral board, age should not be an issue. The problem is many younger candidates don't think they have the life experience needed. First you never tell the board your age. They won't know until the day you're hired. That's the law.

LMC, I would continue your pursuit for a volunteer position and definitely get into medic school ASAP.

I gave a presentation at Shasta Fire College. Many students didn't feel they had any experience that would apply to the position. That was until I asked several candidates to tell me about their first and succeeding jobs in life; no matter how menial it seemed. Many had paper routes, mowing lawns and working at Burger King. O.K., what did you learn? Once the answers started flowing, we heard how they learned to work hard, have responsibility, learn customer service and how to work as a team. Did you participate in sports in school? Isn't that working as a team? Do any of tese areas apply to the fire service? You bet! So any time you can relate your personal life experience in answering an oral board question, you are telling the oral board that you not only know the answer the question, you have already lived it!

When the board asks what you have done to prepare for the position, don't forget to rewind the video tape of your life and create an early trail of how you learned how to work hard, have responsibility, and work as a team.

The biggest part of getting a high enough oral board score that will get you the badge is convincing the oral board you can do the job before you get it. Stories are convincing evidence that you are the match for the badge!

I knew several fire explorers who were too young to test. I attended a large department badge ceremony. One of the fire scouts got a badge on the first test he was old enough to take. You have never seen a happier rookie firefighter.

Captain Bob

Hey I am new at these but I am so sorry to hear about your injury, but if you work for federal companies including the fire service, you will always get the run around with insurance, I got hurt in June 2005 and am still disabled to return to light duty work and I am getting the run around and also am told that one guy hurt his arm and he had to deal with insurance for 2 1/2 yrs. It is a major mess with the fire services insurance, but I was told to talk to a lawyer and have them threaten or scare them into suing and most of the time it will work. But I am sorry to hear that you are being screwed over by insurance, take care and get better.

Jen

I graduated paramedic school in July and went straight in the Fire Academy. I graduated in late September with my 240 certificates. I took my first civil service test last month for an EXCELLENT department that is hiring 4-6 people in the next 3 months. Being it was my first civil service test, I expected to do poorly on it considering everything I had heard about them. I just found that I placed in the top 30 and now will go on to take the psychology exam and the interview with civil service commission and then an interview with the fire chief. I just turned 21, and I have very little experience. I'm extremely nervous because I feel I don't have much to offer them. I am extremely dedicated, did very well in paramedic and fire academy, but I don't have much in the way of fire/EMS experience. Does any one have advice for the oral boards that are coming up so soon? Is it rare that candidates my age are hired by full-time departments? I am very excited about this and I don't want to screw this opportunity up. Thanks for any advice!

Hello everybody,

My name is Beth and I am a new full-time firefighter/paramedic in Maine. I graduated from school this past May, which puts me on the young end at 22. I am looking for fellow female firefighters to email or chat with. I am interested in how other females are making out, and possibly making new friends. I really don't know many other women that do this full-time. If anyone is interested in emailing or chatting, I'd love to hear from you. My email is I will email you back. Look forward to hearing from you.

Beth

I have been with my department for 3 years, Im firefighter 1 and 2 certified. Well, to make along story short, my chief asked me to take a temp. spot in fire alarm for 8 weeks. Well, 8 weeks turned into 8 months. He asked me if I would stay in firealarm until he hired a permanent person. I agreed however a permanent person has been hired and he still refuses to return me to suppression. I requested 3 times to return (in writing) to suppression. The chief states that I've changed class and therefore can't return. I dont believe this to be true. I think it's because Im the only female on my department. I want to be back in suppression. Please help!!!!!!

Kelly

I have been accused of theft and was fired from my volunteer dept. I did not steal and others who were doing the same thing I was were not fired or even reprimanded. I was shown no proof of my "theft," was denied all my records and was banned from the property and also denied any appeal. I was also told I could not sue or ask the EEOC to investigate since this is a nonprofit department. Does anyone have any experience with the EEOC in regard to nonprofit departments? For the record, I didn't steal--but I did turn in a written complaint to the chief which stated that I was being denied training by his father in law based on my gender. The father in law stated he'd get rid of me one way or another and two days later I was fired.

I have a situation that I would like to get some feedback on. I have been a firefighter for almost 5 years. Before I became a firefighter I had had an injury to my shoulder that had been fixed surgically. The doctors at my work certified me physically, and I passed my physical fitness assessment. However, since I have been on the department, I have dislocated my shoulder 3 times, resulting in 2 more surgeries, with a 3rd on the way. Since the last event, the doctors at my work have put a permanent 25 lbs weight restriction for the rest of my life. That restriction disqualifies me as a firefighter, and I am now being forced to find another job. I was just curious if any one had heard of or dealt with any similar situations. Where I work is a little different than most departments, and the job they are forcing me to take is a $10,000 dollar a year pay-cut. I guess I just don't think that it is right, but maybe it is perfectly legal. I don't know. If anyone has any information or comments or suggestions, or anything, I would appreciate it greatly! Thanks!

Shayly

I apologize, I ruined the spelling of my email address, ...thanks a bunch heroes, you!!

Wow-in many ways it sounds like you are going through what I went through, except they wouldn't let me do anything because I was a girl. Now I have some assertiveness issues to deal with, but those are easy compared to getting my situation changed. I will tell you DO NOT GIVE IN OR GIVE UP. I was there myself just a couple of months ago. I finally hung in long enough and got moved to a MUCH better station and crew. You sound like you are having a problem with a large part of the department wide "rumor mill" and anything you do or don't do will be exaggerated. Just do your best and keep your head high. In the mean time, document specific incidents and the "result", including any disciplinary actions that are different for you as opposed to the guys. Harassment and discrimination are lose/lose situations in the long run. If you have access to Employee Assistance Programs, look into counseling to help "back you up" when push comes to shove.
In the end it is truly about doing what you love and chasing the dream that was meant for you to follow.
Hang in there-
Trish

Leigh, is your email address correct in your message? I sent you one about CPAT stuff and it bounced back.

Kira

http://denver.yourhub.com/Story.aspx?contentid=28060

Mary Lopez

Hi Shannon,
Regarding your light duty/Pregnancy Issue. My department does not have a light duty policy either - but in CA departments have to follow the Federal Standards for leave. I know that Berkeley Fire has a policy for pregnancy leave. I had it sent to me via email when I was researching light duty for my department. I hope this helps.

Liz

Well I am sure we have heard this one before! I thought you were talking about me. Unfortunately the other lady was correct in telling you to document because this is harassment - you are not under a different microscope than others. You passed everything too.... unfortunately sometimes we have to take a stand and draw a line. Documentation is the best medicine. Do not tell others of your documentation. Tell your friends about things in the fire department but do not open up to anyone there. There is a rumor mill and you cannot stop it!

Michelle

Has anyone heard that CPAT is not supposed to be used for pre-employment testing? People are telling me that the license states they should use the test only for "candidates" but that word is not defined in the IAFF/IAFC CPAT license.

Michelle

Oral Predentation

Presentation skills are everything in an oral interview. Speaking to a group is one of the top fears. Most candidates panic.

Everyone has butterflies; the trick is to get them to all fly in the same formation.

Your test might include making a 5 to 15-minute presentation to a panel. The topic can be assigned or you can select one from a list. You might have 15+ minutes to prepare the presentation

If you cant give a talk or go to an oral board and be conversational and yourself on purpose, you are sending someone else to do the job. According to a study done by Stanford University, 85% of getting the job is your enthusiasm. If you will light yourself on fire with enthusiasm in an interview or speaking presentation, the panel will stand up, applaud, and watch you butt burn.

This simple formula from the book Inspire Any Audience, by Tony Jeary can help you through the process:

1.Introduction
2. Three major points (and examples to support major points)
3. Questions & Answers
4. Summary
5. Closing

Five minutes will fly by and you won't have enough time to deliver a stand up dog and pony show. Too many candidates will try to pull something off, get delayed and get time called on them just as they were getting to their best stuff.

I personally wouldnt use more than a flip chart for a presentation of less than 15-minutes. You just dont have enough time. Remember, nothing can replace the power of your words. You can use an easel with your major points with color marking pens. You can use a pencil to write your notes lightly in the margin that the panel will not see. This is all about presentation skills! Try not to stand behind a lectern. Be out in front with the panel.

Dont have your presentation set in cement. If something unexpected happens during your presentation . . . use improv and go for it. Its not what happens in the front of the room. The real action takes place in the audience.

captbob@eatstress.com

Captain Bob

I have recently joined the fire service in NC. Problem is I have small feet and have not been able to find structural boots/bunkers that will fit my feet. My department ordered me the smallest size they could find, which was a 5 in mens. They are still a little big, and hard for me to maneuver in. I wear a 6 or a 6&1/2. If anyone can help please contact me.

EMAIL:

Desperately,

Jennifer/NC

If anyone is working for a department that has a pregnancy/light duty policy on place, can you please send it to me, along with any comments you have? I currently work full time as a firefighter/paramedic, and my department uses the city policy about taking family medical leave for pregnancy and childbirth. There is no set policy in place about women receiving light duty for pregnancy, it is at the discretion of the citys administrators, and they are not obligated to offer it. I feel due to our unique work environment, there should be a separate policy regarding medical leave from work for firefighters. If you have any information or ideas, please let me know.

My email is Goldilocks22@hotmail.com
Serious inquiries only please.
Thanks, Shannon

Have you ever listened to wind chimes? One hangs in our back yard. It contains 6 chimes. When there is not much breeze, only one chime is heard. Its a constant monotone gong, gong, gong, gong. When the wind changes direction ever so slightly all-6 chimes begin to play a melody.

It would only take you a short time as an oral board rater to hear the same constant drone when too many candidates use a flat monotone voice. It sounds like they were giving a patient assessment, sounding like the gong, gong, gong, blah, blah, blah of the one lone wind chime.

Then a candidate, who knows what the panel is going to hear out of his mouth, because he has prepared with a tape recorder, sits down in the hot seat and comes out swinging. Hitting all the notes, with the necessary timing, inflection, enthusiasm and volume polished. Just like the slight increase in a breeze to activate all the notes on the wind chimes, if candidates only knew it would only take a few minor changes to orchestrate their interviews closer to their badges.

It doesnt take long on a phone conversation with a candidate to realize why they are having problems.

A recent candidate had such a monotone voice I asked if he knew? He said yea, but thats just my voice. I told him I didnt believe that for a second. What can I do about it? Ive been testing where I can for four years, going to school and work as a federal firefighter.

Trying to get on his turf, I asked him during a coaching session what do you do with your time off? What are your interest, hobbies? What really rings your bell? Nothing seemed to work to break his monotone voice.

That was until a few days later I get a call from an energized candidate. I didnt recognize the voice. Yes, it was Mr. Monotone. He told me he didnt realize how bad it was until he listened to the tape recording of his coaching session. He said, Man I sounded retarded. I cant believe how much stuff I left out. How many times I said What Ever and other stupid pause fillers I didnt know I was using.

The mystery of why this super qualified candidate could not get hired was solved by listening to a tape of what the panel had been hearing for four years.

You too can create the winds of change that can turn things around and ring all the chimes; coming out of the fog with the chimes that turn into tones dropping and youre moving towards the rig on another call. The fifth call in a row. It started at shift change. You havent had a chance to stop for anything more than to restock and get the rig ready for another run and not getting anything to eat. Youre not hungry anyway. Because youre working with a crew where the red-hot captain tells dispatch youre available from the scene you are on so you wont miss any calls. Youre living the dream of a lifetime.

Riding big red. The monotone voice a distant memory.

"Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

Captain Bob

Hi everybody, I am new to this, but I have some questions! The idea of helping people and building a relationship with hard working people seems ideal to me. I wanted to let all of you know that I am a super fan!! .... Moving on, cpat. I know its tough stuff, what core strengths would I need to concentrate on? And if i worked my toosh off by January, think thatd be enough time for the review? I would love all the wisdom you have, I am a little scarred.
My email ljm58616@yahoo.com.
thanks, leigh

"She just has to take whatever is given her otherwise she has an "attitude." You could have been talking about my day yesterday at the FD. I got singled out by the chief and B.C. for not driving the engine enough (like I get to make that call. Excuse me Lt. but I believe I will do the driving today.) then directly told "I heard you hit a curn while driving" Well, I can't lie about that one, yes, once, (and so has the guy with 12 years experience...and the guy with 15 years on..)

While trying to get some extra training, I asked one of the guys to quiz me about the equipment on a rig. Who cares if I knew 99% of it, or that I initiated extra training on my own? All the chief heard was that I didn't know where that ONE piece was. If I don't defend myself against the rumor mill, the guys assume it must be true then, and when I do defend myself, I have a "problem with authority". Women are held to a higher standard, no questions about it. I've been told that I can't just be a firefighter, I have to be a great firefighter, and even then, I'll "never be one of the guys, so don't bother trying". I'm a year on a career dept, have all the necessary training and state certifications as everyone else, but our weekly training sessions are basically a chance for everyone to circle around me to "see what the girl can do" (and have been warned that I "better know how to do it".)

I've been told that I am under a microscope more than anyone else and I should just get used to it. It is making me sick enough to want to leave this job, which is sad because I love it, I just wish I had nicer people to work with. The advice I was given by a Lt. from another FD was to document everything that has been said and done to me. I don't want to be another statistic, or another "cry baby" female firefighter either. It seems like our hands are tied huh? I'm going to my union rep. next shift day to find out what the heck is going on in my dept. Some things have GOT to change.

Jenn

As far as Sensitivity training, please let it be good training. A lot of these classes only lead to more hostility and an over-sensitive atmosphere. Remember that the fire station is not church, so if you are looking for a nice, wholesome place to hang out where no one says bad words or has sick humor, you are in the wrong place. You also have to be specific with what exactly you are looking for. Do you mean discrimnation, harassment, general atmosphere issues, what? Training personnel will not be effective without the support of the chain of command, and the chain of command decides what training is procured. If you absolutely require anonymity, which I can understand, a detailed letter to the chief or human resources people might be the thing. Outline what you need, be clear and concise, and provide the class title or instructor name for prospective training programs. Research this completely and make sure it is what you think may be necessary. Also understand that it may change nothing.

The gear manufacturer that makes SECURITEX paid $2.8 to the family of a firefighter that died when his Securitex Gear reportedly failed him. www.ncsu.edu/news/dailyclips/0305/032105.htm#DJ6 provides some information about the findings of the College of Textiles at NC State University. We have Globe, Janesville and some remnant Firedex gear. I am the Gear Officer for our Department, and definitely prefer the longevity and fit of Globe. Janesville takes the heat well and seems to be a little lighter wearing. If you have any questions please feel free to

Jennifer

Consider doing a little research as to why your department would benefit from "sensitivity" training. Present it in a way that highlights the positives for the department as a whole instead of for a particular individual or minority group. For example: sensitivity / diversity training (when done effectively) can increase quality of service through better morale and teamwork, less absenteeism, greater productivity, a better public image, increased safety, and a greater shared social acceptance among employees. You can also point out some of the negatives such as an increase in medical costs, litigation costs, negative public image, and the emotional distress (on a much larger scale than just a single individual) that a hostile work environment can lead to.

Remember, the people you will be providing this information to may never have had to deal with discrimination or a hostile work environment. Or, they may know it exists and just choose not to address it. Try to present your information in such a way that emphasizes the need for training. And since you will be doing this anonymously, pack as much information as you can in your "report" (including reference to where you have pulled your facts from) since you will not be available for follow up questions. Write yourself a list of questions that you, if you were a member of management, might ask about this topic. Include all of the answers in your report.

Two very good articles to start with are "Discrimination: More Than a Legal Concern" by Dr. Portia Rawles and "Bully for you" by Thomas M. Cunningham. You can find the website links for these articles on a message posted on 6/6/05 titled "Impact of Harassment and Discrimination".

I would send copies of your "report" and research to THE Fire Chief, The Operations Chief (if different from the Fire Chief), Human Resources/Personnel Department, the Training Section, your Labor Union, and any other department within your organization that might be able to help implement the training you are looking for. This way you have given more people the opportunity to address the issue and are less likely to be ignored. Make no mistakes; this issue affects EVERYBODY within your organization, not just one "group" of people.

One last thing - keep accurate documentation as to any harassment / discrimination which you have suffered and any steps you have taken to try to resolve the situation. These records are for your benefit if you ever have to go to court, not for leverage to pressure people with.

Best of luck to you.
Nat

Trish,

I'm glad to hear that you have been transferred to a more positive environment. Congratulations for hanging in there!! Well done!

Nat

Need some feedback here. How would one go about requesting "anonymously" having sensitivity training in our workplace?

Hi, I'm a career FF with 5 years on the job. I'm interested in finding anyone who would help me start a mentoring program for the CPAT and job placement in the New England area (CT specifically). My state is still greatly underrepresented and I feel that we could change that. Please contact me at

thanks, Kim

Lori,

Thanks for your input on the Securtex Gear. Right now the Chief is making the final decision on the gear. I just did all the legwork on Securtex and Globe Xtreme Gear. I like both and told the Chief they are both nice. Unfortunately, I don't make the final decision, but I will pass the info along to my Chief. Like you said, being a volunteer service, there is a budget and Securtex is about $150/set more than the Globe. We'll see what he decides. Thanks again!

Tina

Thanks for the input. The drill we are doing is by yourself first then two people as a team. I had extreme difficulty moving the down FF by myself. It took me around 15-20 mins to get up the two flights. Everyone else was able to accomplish this in alot less time. The big problem is raising the FF up to clear their bottle from the step and still having enough stength to move them up.

AMY

To all of the Lady Firefighters out there thank you for doing what you do. And the men too.

MaryAnn

Hi Cathy I saw your writing on the Internet and I was just wondering how I can get started in the program. All my life I have wanted to be a firefighter and now I can. I just graduated out of grade 12 in 2004 and it seems that I just can't get started. Maybe I am scared or just don't know where to start. Can you please help me? I live in Saskatoon Saskatchewan an want to proceed in life, so if you can email me that would be great. My options for living would be in Calgary or Edmonton

Thanks,

Joleen

Very young and ready to begin!

Hi everyone my name is McKenzie! I am obviously setting my goals of becoming a firefighter but very nervous about the CPAT! I worked at a fire department in my town as an intern for a year and now I am off at college taking my EMT and trying to get into the Northern Nevada Fire Academy. I am very young but ready to start! I am just worried about being so young! Already, I have been harassed by many male firefighters for being a female, but that will not stop me from doing what I love most and that is fighting fires! Right now I just need some good advise about getting into the academy of my dreams and blocking all the people out who say women are not meant to be in the fire service.
Feel free to email me at !

Tina,

My husband is Chief of our fire department and he selected Securtex. We have used the gear for the past ten years with no problems. This past year we switched to 2F3. Our Department loves the gear I have had the same set for the past 10 years. IT has been in numerous fires and comes out like new every time I wash the gear. Most of our fire departments in our community are now switching and trying Securtex. It is a real nice gear and as a Volunteer Deaprtment we need to watch our cost. It is better than most on the market as far as durability. We are very pleased with this product if you would like I can make arrangements for you to speak to my husband he has a little more knowledge on what we use and how long it last before we purchase new sets. Send me an e-mail and let me know I would be more than glad to put you in touch with him.

Lori

Ladies,

For anyone who has thoughts regarding my posting "Trying to break in to the fire service" below, there was a typo in my email address that I didn't catch. The correct address where I can be reached is:
thanks!
Cathy

I am looking for a mentor in northern, California to help me with my transition into the fire service. I am stressed out right now even though I have my EMT and firefighter I academy cert., because I have 1 year left and I get my bachelors in Criminal Justice and I am also trying to go back and get my Associates in Fire Science and at the same time I have to do a mini 6 week academy for my paid-on-call firefighter job. While I am doing all of the above I am trying to keep everything together and test to get into the fire service. I am shooting for my dream job of San Francisco Fire or Oakland Fire. If anyone is in Northern California and would like to assist me on my journey it would be greatly appreciated. You can e-mail me @

Latina

You never said if you had to do this alone or not. I am hoping not. Our department highly discourages a single FF from lifting anyone over 150 lbs by themselves. There are some big guys on my department and I asked them and they would not attempt it without help. We all carry webbing straps in our pockets for the purpose of making a "harness" to carry someone out. When two of us combine, we definitely have a great harness that gets the legs and chest with plenty of excess to carry with. Also using your legs and proper lifting techniques will go a long way. Are you being timed? Or are they just looking for resourcefulness? Be creative and use YOUR own body strengths. If you are working in a team, try to choose someone close to your own height.

Hope it helps- good luck

Trish

Thanks for the advice Sara, it is much appreciated and I will absolutely put it to good use. I just have to chalk my first attempt up to experience and don't worry, I will be back and I'm going to pass the CPAT...then I'll be jumping for joy! :)

Gina

Ladies (and gentlemen),

I have been a volunteer FF for a year and a half now, and I want to go career. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get started and the best way to start building experience? is it worth heading back to school to get a fire admin or fire tech degree? any input would be most appreciated. I can be reached at:dimples1_4@hotmail.com

thanks in advance!

Cathy

A good friend of mine is currently in the firefighter training program in our small town. She clearly is not wanted nor accepted by the men of the program (including the chief). They hold her to a much higher standard than the men. She has passed all her tests and is working extremely hard to become certified in all areas. It has been extremely hard on her but she will never show it to the guys and she refuses to give up. Often times, the chief will yell at her to do something one day and the next day yell at her NOT to do the same thing! She can't win! It breaks my heart that she has to go through this and has no recourse. She just has to take whatever is given her otherwise she has an "attitude."

Is this the only station stuck in the 1950's? Any suggestions on what she can do to help her situation? Thanks!

Diane

Hi Sara and everyone who responded. Yes it was a GREAT feeling to pass!!!

I agree with Sara on the grip strength. One woman failed because of the pull-down...she just ran out of time. My weakness was by far the dummy rag! So I've suggested to others to work on their leg strength and cardio.

Thanks again for the positive comments, it was a blast to pass!

Kira

Amy - I can't think of many firefighters I know, male or female, who could single-handedly move a 250+ lb ff up two flights of stairs. Usually that is a team effort. If you have two people, it's easier. Drag the ff until he/she is sitting with his/her back against the lowest step. One ff stands above and grabs under the scba harness. The other crouches down and puts one knee of the downed ff over each shoulder (yes, get your face right in the crotch). On a count of three, both stand up. You should be able to move the ff now. If you have two people to put at the top and one at the bottom of the ff, that's even better. And if you have an anchor point and can drop down a 2-1-pulley system to hook to the ff, you'll get them up even faster. I suppose, if you had great leg and back strength, you could single-handedly move them up step by step. The motion would be like doing deadlifts and would be slow. I've never tried that or seen it done. My departments focus on highly coordinated team efforts.

Sara

Congrats Kira. Best feeling in the world isn't it?

Keep your chin up Gina. Now that you tried the CPAT, you know what areas of strength, fitness and technique you need to work on. The tips that helped me the most were practicing my sledge swing on a stack of old tires and using my legs, not my arms to do the push/pull. If you palm the bottom of the pike pole, you can raise it by bending your legs. If you grab high on the pull-down, you can just hang. Strengthening my grip was a big help since that's what was the most shot for me by the end of the CPAT. Practice by carrying heavy dumbbells or 40 lb tubs of foam.

Sara

I had a great question come across my desk this week from one of my candidates. I thought I should Share it with you gals over here!:

When, what, and how much should I eat the morning of the CPAT? Would you suggest eating a candy bar or something high in sugar right before the test? What should I avoid to maximize my performance? What about fluids?

Answer:

If you have a cold, or allergies: Stay away from dairy and sugar for a few days before, and the day of your test. They will increase your mucus production. Avoiding them will mean you breath easier on game day. Your nose provides 50-75% of your air intake. If it's stuffy, it can be a problem!

Try to avoid taking an allergy med like Drixoral or a Claritan because these may increase your HR or BP and make your heart jump right out of your chest! This will severely decrease your performance!

The day before: Drink 8 glasses of water evenly spaced thru the day. Eat non-processed carbs, though: brown rice, and lots of raw or lightly cooked vegetables. Also eat and lean protein (chicken/fish).

This is important:
what time of day is the test?

If it is early morning:
Get up 2 hours before the test.
Right away, eat an apple, or a pear, or 1/4 of a cantaloupe or honey dew. Do not substitute other fruit.
Also eat a couple of hard boiled egg whites. No yellows.
Drink some warm liquid. This should help you go #2, so you'll be on the lighter side.
Drink a glass of water.

Your stomach should empty from all this by the time you get to the test. On the way to the test, in the car, drink some more water and have another piece of fresh fruit (the above mentioned only).

Urinate when you get there... you'll be better off empty.

Keep water with you until right up to when you start the test. Sip it, but don't go overboard.

If the test is around noon, get up at 8, Do the above, but add a protein bar as a snack after early morning meal.

If the test is in the afternoon, plug a protein bar (or 2 if you are a big person) into your plan for lunch. This should clear your stomach in time if you eat it about 2 hours before game time. Still eat the fruit on the way to the test.

FYI: I chose the above mentioned fruits because they are low on the glycemic index. That means they will not cause a post sugar crash like a lot of other fruits: like strawberries, watermelon, bananas, peaches and such. Instead they will give a more sustained release of energy.

Drink water after your test, sipping on the way home.

Take every step toward these advantages you can ladies. This can be a very tough test for you! Some of these guys are 6'5" and 265. They are going to have it a lot easier than you. Feel free to write me and ask questions.

Best wishes,
Dr. Jen

Amy, try using a piece of 1 1/2\"-2\" tied to make a large loop. Place the loop across the front of the chest (like doubled up) with one end going under each arm. Put both ends together to form a handle. The loop will have to be long enough so that the handle part is beyond the head Takes 12\' or more. This will 1) lift the head as you lift and pull. 2) can be used with other rope or hauling setup. 3) Gives you more freedom to semi stand/crawl etc. 4) Folds and fits easily in bunker pocket. Good luck!!

Ali

I am new at all this stuff; and I have to get A physical for my VF Department, I have not been around the guys at the station for a week so I am not able to ask them this question. What I want to know is, what should I expect the Physical to be like? What are they going to make me do? I know it sounds silly but I am actually nervous about this, it is going to be on the 25 of this month so it is coming up soon. If I could get some feed back from you ladies that would be great.

Michellen

Hi everyone. I am currently a co-op student at a small fire dept. in Ontario, Canada. I am the only female including administrative staff in a department that has never had a female firefighter or co-op student in it's 150 history. All the guys treat me well, I have no complaints about them, but they can't really give me any guidance when it comes to making it in the fire service as a female. I am planning to go into the fire service after high school and I was hoping that I might be able to find the guidance I ned here. I would be so appreciative of any support you have to offer. Thanks!

Maria

Just wondering if anyone has any information or techniques I could try to move a down FF up two flights of stairs that weighs approx. 250 + gear?

Amy

We had a similar problem in my station. The female in question had caused problems for the past year or so but nothing was done to her. When I started actively riding, she started creating problems for me. She had also targeted several of the younger male members. She had been talked to by the chief several times and things would improve slightly for a week or so. She would refuse to ride any call that I was on. We had a call about a month ago where the chief told her to get on the engine. She flipped him the finger and that was the last straw for him. I had to file a formal compliant against her at the chief's urging. My letter and several others were used to suspend her for 30 days after a formal hearing. She has chosen to not come back to the station even though her suspension is over. We are waiting to see of she decides to quit the company. It took extreme action to get her attention. She did run quite a few calls but she also pulled the I am a female stunt and the guys found it to get real old fast. Sometimes it takes extreme action to get some one's attention in situations like this one.

Hi, my dept is in the process of getting some new bunker gear. Right now, we are deciding on Securtex Gear or Globe Xtreme Gear. Both have their good points. Any advice or previous experience with either one? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I need to give a recommendation to my Chief this week!! Thanks!

Tina

Will your department let you work in administration during the day and ride out with the battalion at night? Or do the division chiefs have work that you could do so that you don't have to answer phones during the day? That is what we do, that way you do not lose your overtime.

Kelly

Becki,

This young lady sounds like big trouble waiting to happen. The flirting and horseplay alone could cause problems for someone in the future. E-mail me at if you'd like some suggestions, I have dealt with a similar person in the past.

Krista

The problem is she's been talked to before about her behavior, even by another female firefighter, and she just doesn't listen. She just goes ahead and does whatever she wants to anyways. She doesn't care about how she represents female firefighters. She just likes all the attention she gets because she can call herself a firefighter. Aside from first responding, she does very little on the department. Actually, add creating drama to that as well.

-Becki

Hey Denise,

I am in the same boat you are, except I am 31 (!!!) and envy any 20 year old who has enough sense to get started early. I have been taking a lot of feats tests lately and it seems the #1 and #2 things that have improved my performance.

The first is leg muscle because I can do a lot with my legs and hips that men can do using upper body strength. So, even though you may be increasing your upper body, by virtue of being female, you will build muscle faster in your legs and hips. This can carry you thru ladder throw, the attic simulator, etc.

Second, a big part of why people flunk feats is not muscle--but they lose steam. Do cardiovascular and increase your lung capacity. Stamina goes as far as muscle in my book. I am 5'7", slender and not at all muscular. But I make up a lot of time in places where they guys have to slow down due to size or stamina, such as the stairs of the attic or hose roll.

So, long story short, build up your legs and lungs and exploit any areas of a feats test that you can in order to save time. That way, you can slow down on the harder parts. (the harder parts for me include dummy drag and keiser sled....)

Alana

Just had to spread my joy that I passed the CPAT yesterday!!! I'm still jumping up and down all over the place :)

Kira

First I have to say Congrats! It's a very difficult test, I know because I took this last weekend but fell short just before the last event, didn't quit but I ran out of time. Totally bummed but I plan on testing again after some more training. Any advice would be much appreciated. Way to go!

Gina

Good for you kira, I know the feeling I was on a cpat "I passed" high for a month!!!!!! Congrats! You deserve a big pat on the back.

Rosie

Its a tough situation but as a woman I think its your duty to take her aside and talk to her, as you know we are a minority and her actions can cast a neg. on women in the fire service. She needs to represent women in a positive light and not hold us back. As women in the fire service most of us have worked for respect and equality and we also need to be educators, I would sugget pulling this "foot stamping pouter" aside and talking to her woman to woman.

Rosie

Hello everyone, I am not a firefighter but my husband is. Im in school for journalism and I'm doing a feature article for one of my classes on female firefighters and hazing. Would anyone have any testimonials or information regarding this subject? I want some real life stories and anecdotes for my article. I would also love to interview someone if they are from South Florida on the issues facing women in the firefighter work force.

My name is Bethany Fox and you can email me or post a message back if you have anything that might be useful to my article. My email is

Bethany

name is Denise, I'm 20, and I'm planning to test for a department soon. I would like anyone to give me some advice on how to better prepare myself for the physical agility. Please email me with any thing that would help me.

Thanks, Denise

Many regular job and corporate interview candidates like the following are stunned and baffled why they don't have high scores on their firefighter interviews.

Captain Bob:
I just received my oral board score for the City of Glendale. The score did not represent how I felt I did during the interview. This is a big problem for me because I now realize that I DON'T KNOW what the board is looking for. I make presentations for a living, so I felt confident in what I did to prepare. I was sure that I just about nailed it.

I've always been competitive about what I set out to accomplish, using every tool that I can utilize to reach my goal. Sir, I would greatly appreciate your training to help me be the best that I can be at the oral boards.

I've been preparing for these orals for months and felt extremely prepared. I don't want to waste another oral board without knowing that I've done all that I can to be the best candidate possible. Thank you for your time Sir. Regards, Fire Recruit Jeff

Reply: Jeff, You're not alone here. You have discovered like many other's that a fire department oral board is different than anything you have encountered. Too many candidates beat their heads against the wall for years getting to the point where you are now.

Another one:

After my interview rejection an east coast city last week, I sent a letter to the D/C thanking him for the opportunity and telling him I'd appreciate any feedback from the interview. Well - he was honest - he indicated he wanted me to keep testing & interviewing, but wrote that I:

-talked too much & over answered the questions -talked too fast
-some of my answers were based on book knowledge (?)

Also - as I mentioned I approached this like I would a corporate interview (BAD IDEA) and I tried to 'close' them at the end - they asked if I had any closing questions (jeez I wish I read your web site before going in) and I opened my big stupid mouth to say 'I kept your rejection letter from last year (I actually showed it to them - this was my second time interviewing) and it mentioned that candidates had failed to prepare and properly sell themselves to the board. I've been working to improve myself in these areas for the past year - have I properly done this?'

The D/C mentioned in his letter back to me that, 'I don't think that showing the letter I mailed out last time was the best thing you could have done. It was as if you were showing it off and showing us that you still had it.' I need to keep my d*mn mouth shut and just answer the questions. Live and learn.

Fire Captain Bob

Hello everyone. My name is Tracey and I have been a fulltime firefighter in Ottawa, Canada, for almost 7 years. I am currently finishing up my maternity leave with my first child. When I got pregnant I was immediately put onto a day shift -- which I hated and tried to fight but got nowhere. I really wanted to find a job on shift. I was the first female in our department to get pregnant so it was a brand new problem. Anyway, I did my time and I have a beautiful baby boy to show for it.

This week another female on our job found out that she is pregnant. The same thing happened to her -- she was immediately put on a day shift even though she tried to fight it.

I am now considering what will happen when I try to get pregnant again. The thought of going onto a day shift again drives me crazy -- not to mention that our child care is arranged according to my shift work.

I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions as to what your departments do for pregnant female firefighters -- there must be some sort of shift work available.

Thanks for the help,

Tracey

I'm on a volunteer dept. and we have a problem with one of our members. She is very immature for her age, always wants attention, she will say stupid things to get everyone to take notice and get distracted from what they are doing, horseplays around and flirts with some of the other firefighters, plays the "I'm a girl so treat me different" card, pawns off her tasks on others (even though she is physically strong enough to do it herself... just lazy) . To make matters worse, she has gotten onto a paid department and now thinks she knows everything. When we do something, she says, "that's not how we do it at..." It's getting really annoying. She has so much potential, and will be a great firefighter... if she just stops acting immature. She has on several occasions stamped her foot and pouted like a little girl and tried to act all cute. I kid you not! The chief has tried to resolve this, but I don't think it's working.

Any advice?

Thanks!

Becki

Hi Maelike,

Im Sarah. Im 14 from the U.S. (PA) I would to talk to you and any one else too if they want to.

SARAH

Does anyone here know Joni Oliverios (or Oliveros)? She previously worked at the Navy Supply Center San Diego, but I understand that today she is an EMT with the city. She used to live in th North Park area with her mom (Nancy?), but now has a 20-year-old daughter and may be living elsewhere in the city. If anyone knows her, please with updated information about Joni. .

Thanks.

Jerome

Younger candidates have credentials too!

As long as you can present your package at the oral board, age should not be an issue. The problem is many younger candidates don't think they have the life experience needed. First you never tell the board your age. Too many candidates begin with, "Hi, my name is Jeff Johnson, I'm 20 years old and want to be a firefighter." I'm surprised by how many actually look older.

I gave a presentation at a fire college. Many students didn't feel they had any experience that would apply to the position. That was until I asked several candidates to tell me about their first and succeeding jobs in life; no matter how menial it seemed. Many had paper routes, mowing lawns and working at Burger King. O.K., what did you learn? Once the answers started flowing, we heard how they learned to work hard, have responsibility, learn customer service and how to work as a team. Did you participate in sports in school? Did you letter? Captain of the team. Isn't that working as a team? Do any of these areas apply to the fire service? You bet! So any time you can relate your personal life experience in answering an oral board question, you are telling the oral board that you not only know the answer the question, you have already lived it!

When the board asks what you have done to prepare for the position, don't forget to rewind the videotape of your life and create an early trail of how you learned how to work hard, have responsibility, and work as a team.

The biggest part of getting a high enough oral board score that will get you the badge is convincing the oral board you can do the job before you get it. Stories are convincing evidence that you are the match for the badge!

I knew several fire explorers through our department who were too young to test. They were using this time to learn how to take a firefighter interview. At a large city badge ceremony one of the fire scouts got a badge on the first test he was old enough to take. You have never seen a happier rookie firefighter.

Fire Captain Bob

My name is Tom Ryan, I am a 32 y.o. FireFighter/EMT-I from Falmouth, Maine. Having women in the Fire Service is a welcomed addition and I hope that more will apply.

I am looking for pen pals from all over the US and the World who would be interested in becoming friends, trading patches, t-shirts, info and stories.

I can be reached at

Look forward to hearing from you.

Tom

I am a career firefighter with the City of Berkeley in California. My son Tyler is 11 years old and doing a History day project about women in the fire service. The theme is "Taking a Stand". He has developed a questionnare that he and I are hoping women firefighters will respond to this questionnaire. Please feel free to also include personal stories that may be pertinent to the taking a stand theme. Thank you all in advance for your time and efforts. The questions are:

1. How long have you been in the fire service? Which department do you serve with?

2. Please explain the physical abilties testing you had to do when you were hired.

3. Has that testing changed at all since you were hired?

4. What was the hardest part of the training (for you)?

5. What problems (if any) did you encounter while working that you believe related to you being a woman?

6. How were you treated when you first came into the fire service? Are you seen differently now that you have been a firefighter for a while?

7. Why did you decide to become a firefighter? Did you meet resistance or acceptance in your decision from family or friends?

8. Do you see yourself as a role model for the women of today? What do you think that you are showing or teaching them by being a firefighter?

9. Do you see yourself as "taking a stand" in history?

10. If your daughter wanted to pursue this line of work, what would you tell her?

Please e-mail your responses with "Forward to Tyler" in the subject line. They will be sent on to us (and not posted here).

In Indiana I know of no such restriction. The women go through the same training as men and are expected to do their jobs. The only limitation women have on our department is when we are pregnant and everyone gets a little uneasy if you want to fight fires. They would prefer we do EMS only or go to light duty.

Kelly

I know that where I work in Texas, unless there is a medical reason not to, all firefighters, whether female or male, are expected to enter burning buildings for rescue and extinguishment. It is why we do what we do: to save lives and property. It is what we are trained for. I thank God every day that being a woman in the fire service isn't like a woman in the military: I get to see combat time!!!

Trish

I have a problem and I'm not sure how I should look at it. One of my friends is in the the public safety field, and she told me that it's hard being in that field because the guys look at you as either a girl with a bad attitude or they question your sexuality. Is this true and if so how do you deal with it?

Tater

I would like to inquire about same-sex harassment on the job. I have worked in the fire service for 10 years and I continue to experience and have directly been told by a supervisor in the past that they have had " explicit" dreams about me.

I am now looking to end my career, due to the lack of integrity and imposed ego in order to confront an issue that we tuck under the rug. Granted, many women experience only one form of sexism and if you do not agree with "certain" people or their behaviors - you will exist with intimiation or hostile daily environments. This is happening in the fire service amongst women. I have endured and been steadfast long enough, now I ask this board to respond. Am I the only one? And is that what being in the fire service means for women? Hurdles from the "guys" and now from the "gals"? Can't we just work for a common interest? Or is it about emerging to the top without considering the trail of damage behind you?

Kris

Well, after a couple months of misery, it looks as though I am getting a new lease on the career I love! I found out today I am being moved to another station, and not just any other station but the main station downtown!! This is where our department trains fire dispatchers (which is great since I still have 'radio fear'), most fire fighters 'swing' or fill in at other stations from this station, and it is the busiest station. I may not get a raise in pay, but to me it is a STATUS promotion, and perhaps an indicator of how good at this I really am, or could be with the right leardeship, since this is the home of the 'A-team'. Thanks to everyone for your words of encouragement, because I may have thrown in the towel if I hadn't had others who had walked this road to share with.

Trish

Hi there, does anyone in the New England area want to train for the ESPN firefighter games? I think it would be fun. Contact me if you are interested. Serious inquires only, please.

Rosie

First, I want to say that you are experiencing the next level of women being in the fire service. I am right there with you. Thankfully, we had incredible women precede us, yet we now confront another hurdle: the covert environment of sexism and hostility. There is no solution unless it clearly falls into "litagtion status" which has not figured out that we are in a unique industry with unique environments. Until more of us speak up about the experiences we are having which fall into policy violation, the more disservice we are doing.

I appreciate that you are asking. There are options. And I understand what covert crap which goes beyond the small minded comments or brief stupid actions. In time that resolves. when we have a fire that humbles the best of us, and you emerge in the reality of "we are firefighters." Period. Male or female. When the crap hits the fan we (women) are there. It's about skill and smarts.

The area that you are talking about has made me question my own fire service career. And that is sad. I worked my ass off to be promoted to Captain, and now I find myself stopped by politics, lies and agendas. How do you undo that, well, forget all of that? The union won't rock the issues unless you matter. And in these times of budget constraints, forget it. As far as law, well, you have to somehow go around the fear of "damage down the road" meaning wanting promotions or a positive regard. And us gals can be just as bad as guys.

I do offer you this: we can bring to the fire service integrity! The across-the-board acceptance of ability and potential for promotion. If we stay focused on what we can do, and suport, God help us... it has to change. But I have to say that the incredible people ahead of us- 15+ yrs. well, they either know what I am saying and are in this with us, or they decided to by in that "we" (women) are accepted and became silent or dodged the reality of the fire srevice because they became a chosen politic launching pad! I ask you and myself and all of you to stand up and make it better for those behind us. Because we bring to the fire service an important and unavoidable dimension!

Kris

What's your Competitive Advantage?

Every Saturday there is a farmer's market in our town. Many booths sell strawberries. There is one strawberry booth though that has a long line until they sell out. If you asked anyone in the line that is a half block long, they would tell you that these strawberries are the best. People stand in line for up to 20 minutes. What makes these strawberries better?

Well, it is know that once strawberries are picked, they will not get any sweeter. So this farmer only picks his berries at the peak of their sweetness. One or two days later these berries would go to mush. But, this farmer knows he can pick his berries at their peak and have them sold the next morning. He also piles on extra berries as he bags up your purchase. This is his competitive advantage.

What are your uniqueness and competitive advantage in getting a badge? Something that is going to make you stand out among the other (strawberry booths) candidates? Is it your special uniqueness to take a program from inception to completion? Your long trail of customer service? Team concept? Strengths? Really learning how to take a firefighter interview. The burning desire to continue when others' would quit?

Your special uniqueness doesn't have to be firefighter related. As a matter of fact, those candidates that can weave their personal life experiences into their oral board answers run right by the other "Clone" candidates.

A medic in a large city soon realized there was a large population of Vietnamese citizens. To help him in the field he started taking Vietnamese at the community college and practicing it in the field. He soon became fluent. Guess what? This city realized the same thing. So in addition to giving a special Spanish speaking qualifying fire-hiring list they started a Vietnamese speaking list too. He passed and was hired!

The point here is start writing down your special unique qualities that will give you that competitive advantage on your oral board game day that will inspire the board to say we want to hire this person. It can happen just that fast when you know what it is for you.

"Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

Captain Bob

Hello,

I'm a 22 years old firefighter from Holland. I like mailing with other woman firefighters of the world.

Marlike

We are hiring the people who prepare for their tests. No matter your color, size, upbringing, social standing or religious affiliation, you are in a competition with only one person, yourself.

I have seen people get hired a week after their 18th birthday, and heard people say we dont hire people under 20.

Ive seen a guy get ired at 47, and heard people say we dont hire people over 40.

Ive seen people get hired with a high school diploma and their smile, and heard others say we dont hire people without a degree.

Ive seen a little, and I mean little, girl get hired on an all male department, when others were saying they dont hire women.

Ive heard your hiring can depend on where the chair is in the room. Ive heard it makes a huge difference what color suit you wear, what kind of paper your resume is on, your time on a pass/fail physical agility is told to the raters and impacts your score. I had one guy tell me that he heard the raters go out and look into your car while you are waiting, to see if its clean.

Stop listing to people who dont know, and listen to what you know is the truth. You get the job by coming out high enough on the list to get into the academy. With most tests being 100% oral, that doesnt leave must discussion about how to get there. Nail your interview=get a job. Mystery solved.

Rob

I'm 17 yrs. old and a senior in high school. I have wanted to become a firefighter ever since I can remember. I have had people tell me Im a female and will not be able to make it. My family isnt really behind me on my decision to become a firefighter but this is what I would like to do. I have been on ride-alongs with the local fire dept. and I love it. I think this is the right job for me. I need advice about what to do and how I should go about getting started. You can e-mail me at

Kayla

In Indiana I know of no such restriction. The women go through the same training as men and are expected to do their jobs. The only limitation women have on our department is when we are pregnant and everyone gets a little uneasy if you want to fight fires. They would prefer we do EMS only or go to light duty.

Kelly

The 21,000/year for a GS-4 is for a full year of work. However, as a seasonal, you will not be working the full year. How much work you can expect is determined by the type of position you have. Is it a temporary, "1039" position, or a permanent seasonal position? How many pay periods are you guaranteed? Look over the vacancy announcement again and then call the contact person on that vacancy to determine how long you can expect to work. As a seasonal, you cannot expect to make $21,000 in base pay, although you might make that much with overtime and hazard pay.

Susan

Cassie

Yes, women are allowed to enter burning buildings--we can even be first in if we are lucky enough to get the nozzle. We are expected (and trained) to perform as any other part of the crew--male or female. There really aren't any "rule of thumb" restrictions for women. At least not where I work.

DJ

Howdy,

My name is Beka. Im a female firefighter. Im working on my 3rd yr. on the job. I think you should go for firefighting if you want to. I hate that your family isn't supporting you, but it makes you a stronger person. You will have a tough time with discrimination, see a lot of people and men think it is still a mans job. I have problems like this out of men and other subjects, but I don't let it get to me. See I know I can do my job and God knows I can do my job, so I just ignore their ignorance. I hope you go strong at it and please don't give up!!!! Email me if you would like, Ill be here for you.

My Yahoo messenger is: firegirl1485. IM me if you would like. Good luck. May God bless.

" Ladies, lets roll"!!!!

Beka

I'm doing a paper on women's rights for an English class, and someone told me that women firefighters were not able to enter fires, or at least not able to enter the fire first. I was wondering if this was true? Or if there are any restrictions put on women firefighters that are not put on the men.

Cassie

Breast-feeding is the most beneficial thing you can do for your child both mentally and physically. There is nothing more beautiful than the bond that forms between a baby and its mother during that time.

My wife breast-fed both of our kids for almost a year. When we were done we started them on all organic foods. We felt that, even in trace amounts, toxins shouldnt be something a baby gets in its food.

Here is my concern. What happens to a mothers milk in the days after her being exposed to toxins in a structure fire or haz-mat incident? I went to a hot spring four days after a fire and everyone in the sauna could smell the smoky stink coming off of me. This was after 4 or 5 showers and an Epson salt bath. Not only does the skin hold onto the toxins you are exposed to, but if you were to get one whiff of the smoke from a car fire, dumpster fire, or during overhaul with your mask off, what would be in the milk? If my wife ate garlic, the next day the babies diaper smelled like it. What goes into the mom goes into the baby.

Possibly putting up some milk in case you are exposed to something, or making other arrangements through the La Leche league would be a possibility. Just something to think about, there very well may never have been any studies done in this area since nursing mothers havent been in the fire service for that long.

Rob

I previously posted this:

I have been on a volunteer department for 6 years, serving as 2nd Lieu., 1st lieu. and Lieu. The Captain I served as Lieu. Under was a very unintelligent person, and I did ALL his duties for him, because he was mentally incompetent to do any of them. I ran against him for Captain, and not only did I not gt the Captain's position, they put a lesser-trained person in the Lieu. spot. I was elected to the financial secretary position (which I have held for the last 4 years). I was quite angry and have stopped going to fire calls, and other functions. In the past 5 years males have stopped showing up and have not been asked to resign positions, or sent any communications regarding their intentions toward their positions. After 4 months, I have been sent a letter requesting I appear and state my intentions toward the position of Fin. Sec. I will be losing the points for the year for the service award if I resign the position. The Male that did the same thing was given the points for his position for 4 years before any letters or demands were sent. What do I do? My husband has been a member for 16 years and has resigned due to the way they are treating me. I don't want to just resign the position.

Update: I did the right thing and resigned the financial secretary position. Three male members who stopped coming to calls were put on "leave of absences" recently (without their asking for the leave). I requested a leave, and was sent a letter that in order for me to have a leave granted, I would have to turn in all company equipment, per our bylaws. The other 3 males were not asked to turn in anything.

I attempted to find an attorney, but it seems since there is not much money involved (just the LOSAP money when I am 65), no attorney wants to do anything. I will probably just not respond to their letter, but I feel like these guys are getting away with screwing me. I also don't know how to deal with the angry feelings this whole thing keeps dredging up.

Any Ideas?

Lynn

Anne,

I know that a lot of people have responded but I had the same problem. I was having trouble in the academy in spring throwing my Ladders I am 5'5 140 pounds. Size does not matter my friend was 5-0 and she threw that ladder like a stud.

Girl, my friend and me are both going to be paid-on-calls like you. During finals out of all the other people we got picked out to keep throwing our ladders by the captain. I threw my 24 foot by myself 4 times the night of finals and my time of course got worse each time. But I remember on the last time the ladder started shaking out of my hands when I was about to throw it and the Captain looked at me and I said I can do it and yes I did even with it falling and feeling like I had nothing left. He ended up making me and my friend come out on mothers day in the pouring rain to throw ladders in the morning. We came down to the station and threw the ladders in the amount of time we needed and then were told by another instructor that we were being picked on because we were paid-on-calls, but he went on to tell us this is only the start of you girls dealing with this B/S in the fire world and you proved by coming in this rain that you dont care what obstacles are put in your way you are going to do it.

In a nutshell what I am trying to say is dont think that your captain is out to get you. If you have that mentality you wont go far in the fire industry. Try to think of it as fuel to your fire to prove him wrong. You dont want to sound like a cry baby (as I did until I realized in the academy) you need to be strong and keep coming down if you need to and find out the techniques that work for you. My friend and me are only 5 inches apart in height and she has to throw the ladder different then me but that is ok because she does it safe and gets the job done. When it falls down to it, it is all about getting the job done...right. So hold your head up get mad and throw that ladder like you have never thrown it. Like they say it takes doing something 60 times the same way to get that muscle memory.

Good luck and dont give up like I almost did. You have made it this far why let a Captain keep you from your goals and dreams?

If you have any questions, I am younger like you so we can relate you can e-mail me:

Latina

Bottom line and cold blunt truth, you have to prove yourself, there are always going to be people out their trying to bring you down, not just in the fire world. If I were you I would dedicate all my time to ladders, practice, practice and practice some more. Get a buddy ask for help. People tend to respect people that ask for help and that are willing and wanting to improve their weaknesses...show your captain what youve got, you have to earn respect and trying and not to give up is going to get you there. I know you can do it, keep it up. You may be only 5 '2 and 19 but you are young and able. Start hitting the weights and get strong, show people what youve got. Chin up!

Rosie

There is a possibility that this captain is not out to get you, but instead he wants to make sure he has a crew that all can meet the minimum standards.

First of all, as a full time firefighter, we as a group ride the paid on call/volunteers pretty hard. This is not because we do not like them, but that we are pushing them to do the best they can. In a Para-military organization this is how new people are brought into the group. I am sure that they all know how often you show up. If anything, that would be why I would want to make sure you can do you job well. I would want the people who show up most often to be a person that I could count on. If a captain has to remember what the weaknesses of every person on the fire ground are, it would make their job far more difficult.

If I were to go out and try for a position on the Oakland Raiders football team, they would first have to find out if I could do the minimum. It would be nothing personal, but they would tell me that my 140# body would be destroyed the first time I went out on the field to play. We have minimum standards in the fire service also. Everyone is good at some things and not at others. Some people can take out a door with one kick, but not fit into the attic. I may not be able to lift as much as others, but I can fit through the rafters in the ceiling with my breathing apparatus on. There is a gal on my department that doesnt weigh all that much. I have seen her on a hose line and she just goes up and puts her back against the wall before she turns on the hose.

Most of the women I have seen that have problems with physical things are having a problem with upper body strength. You can work on that. Dont let this discourage you, but be something that motivates you to do better. You will probably never be somebody that can dominate on ladders, and neither will I. But if you are able to learn the proper techniques, and build up youre strength, you can do it well enough to get by. There really are not a lot of times when you need to throw a ladder by yourself in an emergency, but when it comes up it is very important.

On a side note, in my experience I see more smaller people retire from a full career than the bigger guys. I have always had to use proper techniques and ask for help when I needed it. The people that have gone their whole lives grunt-lifting things have a habit of breaking when they get older.

Rob

Practice your ladder throw. And, get into the gym. Here is an idea I have used a lot:

(warm up first!)

1. Do a super set of the 2 below exercises. Don't rest between, go one right to the other. Start out with 4 sets and work up to 8.

Set one: Squats: use the Smith Machine. Put a 25 on each side to start (after a month, go to 35's and a month later go to 45's). Lower slowly, like on a count of 6 to tabletop legs (90*/90*). From there, explode to straight but not locked. Do 20 reps the first set. After that, go to failure.

Move directly to: Overhead Press-ups with a plate. Again, start with a 25, (after a month, go to 35, and another month go to 45). Hold the plate in front of you, angled out from your chest... right under your chin... hands palm in, shoulder width apart. Back edge of just below the top of the sternum. Push up quickly until your arms are almost locked. Lower slowly, a count of 6. Go to 20 the first set, and to failure after that.

Unfortunately, you are always going to run into some people who think you are less. Thankfully, it is not always the case. You are going to have to swim upstream a lot during your career. This just means that if we want equality, then we have to perform equally. Be tough. Be tougher than he is. And mostly, never let him see you sweat (him).

You have not reached muscle maturity yet. You have 9 years to get there. You will get there!

If there's anything that is not clear here, you can e-mail me or send me a message of any type.

Dr. Jen

www.fireagility.com

Often, many dont realize that its not just strength. The Nugget is technique, momentum and grip.

I agree with Rosie. Get a buddy to team up with. What firefighter wouldnt want to puff out their chest showing his or her special techniques that got them their job or help on the fire ground? One of our candidates was losing sleep over the uncertainty of not being able to throw a ladder. These fears were put to rest after teaming up with a buddy that showed the needed technique.

With ladder throws, its gaining momentum and a continuous movement from beginning to end of the throw, using a pivot point and the weight of the ladder to your advantage. Walking a ladder is using a pivot point and the weight of the ladder to your advantage. When raising the fly, pull the rope in short hand over hand movements in front of your face not much higher than your head. On each grip of the rope, turn your fist palm down to improve your grip. Keep one foot planted at the spur (bottom one side or the other) keep the other foot back for balance. Slightly tilt the ladder towards the wall for balance as you raise it.

Your worst experience could be placing the best ladder at the wrong location.

You can find out more techniques here: www.eatstress.com

Captain Bob

I have been a paid call firefighter for about 6 months. I had an academy and tested to finally get my pager and be allowed to go on calls.

I have this one captain who has always made me feel like he didnt want me around. He made me feel like I was never good enough. I had to work on a shift with him and he knows where my weak spot is. I always had a tough time with ladders, but I manage to get by and can throw them. The problem with the one station I worked at, I have never been able to throw the ladder there. So now he went to my training officer and told him I was a danger to myself and others.

The part that makes me so mad about this is that I am the only paid call firefighter that shows up to calls. I work so hard for my department and now I have a captain that seems like he is trying to get rid of me anyway he can. I understand that I need to be able to throw a ladder at anytime. It was a skill that I shouldnt have forgot to practice. I just need a little bit of practice to have it perfect again. Im not going to give my turnouts up because of my one captain.

If I felt like I would endanger myself or others, I wouldnt be there. I just dont know how to deal with this. I dont want to bring it up to my training officer that my one captain is out to get me, but at the same time I think its playing a large role in it. I kind of feel like it has to do a little bit with who I am also. Im 5'2''and 19 years old. People dont look at me and think Im a firefighter. No one ever takes me seriously because of the way I look.

I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how to deal with this.

I have to have a chat with my training officer on sat. He said I dont have anything to worry about yet.

Thanks so much. Be safe and take care

Anne

I was talking to a lady from the Forest Service about seasonal firefighting, and she said that I would get paid at the G-4 level. The G-4 level is around $21,.000. Now what I want to ask is, is that for a season, or for a year of working? What do people get paid a season? I knew I should have asked her this but I was not thinking of it at the time.

Lauren

I think it would be a mistake to bring it up in an interview. First of all, the panel obviously knows you are a woman, and also must be familiar of the different skills you may be bringing to the job.

You never know who will be sitting on your panel and you wouldnt want to have someone interpret what you say as, You should hire me BECAUSE I am a woman while that is not what you said, it may be how some see it.

The fire service seems to collect a very odd group of people in our ranks, and you just never know what kinds of people are sitting on the other side of the table from you, what their motivation and feelings are.

Say for instance you were to say, If I was on scene of an emergency and there was a woman hurt, she could identify better with me, and I could provide a better service to her than a man a very true statement. Compare it to I am a man of color and if there is a person of color that is hurt I could give better service to them than a white person again probably a true statement, but it could be interpreted in a way that is not what you intended.

The people sitting on your evaluation panel have been on the job a while and they have seen how men and women behave differently on a call. You dont need to tell them that. Simply go into your interview and tell them about your education, experience what kind of a person you are, and what an asset you could be to their department.

Rob,

No comment.

Fla. Chief Bans Women Firefighters From Burning Buildings.

CLEARWATER, Fla. -- The city's fire chief has ordered women firefighters to temporarily stay out of burning buildings amid threats that their male colleagues might not protect them.

More here

Marley

I'm a female firefighter working on my AA degree in fire science and have to write a paper for a company officer class. The topic is finding a policy/system/process to improve communication within a workgroup or organization. My department has made some major decisions without consulting any of the female firefighters and has not been concerned about how the decisions affect us. I am looking for information about how other departments deal with similar issues. The women on my department have considered instituting a female liaison to run ideas past, get a woman's insight, etc. Does anyone have something like that or have any further information?

Carol

I was wondering if anyone used the fact that they were female and how it might help to have a female on scene in some capacity in their oral board interview or if you think I should.

Thanks

Lisa

I got a great question from a candidate that might help anyone with the last minute jitters:

Taking my CPAT Tomorrow! Been working out for it. Shut down my workouts Thursday. Been relaxing and stretching. Even got a leg massage.

I am really nervous. Hope I get some sleep tonight!!! I'm sure the veterans of the CPAT are laughing at me. But, its my first one. I just hope I do well. Any hints?

Answer:

If you get that worked up, there are a few things I have done in the past in that situation that made things worse, so I'll tell you in advance so you won't make those mistakes.

Coffee... that really makes some people's blood pressure and heart rate go up very high. Don't drink any. Make sure you get enough sleep so you won't need it to wake up. Do drink something warm in the morning, though, as you'll feel lighter, faster and better with empty lower GI tract.

Allergy meds... for many they have the same effect as coffee, so avoid them. To avoid any problems with that type of thing, drink 3-4 glasses of lemon (a quarter of a lemon squeezed in each) water today. This will cut the sniffles like nothing else. Also avoid any dairy products AT ALL today. (They increase mucus production in most people)

You'll be fine. You've trained hard (sometimes too hard) and you are prepared. Read through the station summaries I told you about before, and get your head set about each one.

Visualize yourself doing the whole thing, over and over, every step of the way... all the way to the finish where you have over a minute to spare. Remember, you need to move on to each step as if you've done it dozens of times, no hesitation.

You'll do fine!

If I can do it, you can do it. No doubt.

Dr. Jen

www.fireagility.com

I belong to a Volunteer fire department in Rural upstate New York. I know most of our volunteer departments around here don't have set shifts. We have pagers that go off when our station's sirens are tripped and it tells us where and what we have. A lot of people refer to it as being on duty 24/7, but if we get a call and say you are at work or in class, it is not required that you go. You make the calls that you can, when you can. A lot of the time, depending on where you are when the pager goes off, you may not even be able to respond to the station, it is not uncommon to drive our own personal vehicle to a fire scene, and other people that were closer to the station gets the trucks.

If I can be of any more help to you e-mail me:

Michelle

Hi there!

I'm a 19year old fire fighter from Germany and I just found your homepage!

Be blessed

Annika

I have been seriously working out for 5+ yrs now. I have tried several diet fads and what not, I can assure you that South Beach is NOT the way to go. I also strength train and I recently passed my CPAT, working out is my "hobby", I keep up on all the newest fitness news.

Youre not going to want to hear this but eat clean and eat frequently. Give up the juice, soda, fried foods and white flour. Start eating protein and "good" carbs at every meal. Whole wheat breads/pasta, brown rice (not instant), veggies, yogurt, lean meats/turkey & chicken, a good rule if you are trying to build muscle and lose fat is eat more protein, you should consume one gram per lb. of body weight, so if u are 130lbs, try to take that much protein in a day. 5 small meals makes you eat less and speeds up your metabolism. Never skip breakfast; I can go on and on, so feel free to e-mail me. I highly recommend Oxygen magazine, its the #1 fitness mag out there, no fluff, real women with real fitness goals.

Rosemary

Hey Melissa,

I just had a baby in May and am beginning to train again for the CPAT. I'm in Colorado Springs. I think you should go for your dreams because that is what will make you a great mom. If you're happy and healthy, you'll be all the better for your son. Don't think of it as putting your life in danger; anything can happen to anyone at any time. At least in the fire service, you're all a team; you take care of each other, just like family. Go for it and let me know if you want to train together.

My email is

Bryn

I was wondering if anyone has tried or knows anything about the South Beach diet? I am trying to gain muscle and loose fat that I have gained since the fire academy and I am evaluating if this is a good diet for us women firefightrs?

Also if I start doing this diet I ordered the CPAT DVD and will be doing this workout to whip my body back into shape.

I also wanted to know if anyone has used this diet after having a child because I plan on having two little ones in the future. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Latina

You know, before I chose firefighting as my career path I used to be a little skeptical of my significant other at the firehouse. So how I eased the fact that he was in the firehouse with other women was by going down there and meeting everybody. The funny thing is I got so tight nit with the women that they invited me to the FDIC with them in 2005.

All I can say from experience is I don't have the same problem, but my friend did while she was in the academy her husband didn't understand how a house wife could be gone so long and accused her of cheating. My friend and I have since evaluated the issues that arose and the problem was she was not including her husband by introducing him to the fire service and all of her fellow firefighters to let him know that we are all human and are there to fight fires not screw up our marriages.

So in a nut shell I think you should start inviting him to the firehouse more with the little one and making him feel almost as if they were his second family also and letting him know he can contact you at anytime he pleases and reassure him of your love for him and the wonderful little miracle that you both made. I hope this has helped you even though it is not exactly the same situation.

If you have any other questions you can e-mail me @

Hello Jessica,

CONGRATS on your little girl! How exciting!

I have to tell you that I had the same problem with my fianc. He was great when I first met him. He thought that I had a great job and that it fit me perfect. Then we got engaged and then he started easily teasing me about the guys I work with until he blatantly started questioning me. I tried and tried to tell him to trust me and that I love him. I even explained to him that every one on my crew is happily married, many of the wives I am good friends with. This went on for a while, until I decided to have him ride along for a day. He got to experience what it was like for me at work and how we all work together like a family. I think that the key is to keep your guy part of the fire family. I have found that with men, being the significant other of a firefighter it is a lot harder than it is for women. It could be an ego thing or it could be a protection/jealousy thing that guys have that we don't.

I hope this helps. It is a hard position to be in and can make life a lot more stressful.

Good Luck and best wishes,

Krissy

Ask for a copy of your personnel file, and any documentation related to your firing and your initial complaint. Call the EEOC and ask to make an appointment to file your complaint. Bring every document related to your firefighting and the firing (Be Organized!) The EEOC will either ask the department to sit down in negotiations, or they will not find the department at fault. If that happens, you will receive a notice for your right to sue and you can take that notice to a lawyer.

Good luck!

Alana

Put him in turnouts, strap on an scba and make him climb some stairs. Tell him if you were out boy-chasing, you could sure find an easier occupation.

Alana

The South Beach Diet, in the end, is just good old-fashioned smart/healthy eating. The plan gives you a little bit of information at a time, as that is all the normal person can process and apply properly.

The key is change: real change that is permanent. Over a lifetime, it is good to learn the principles taught in it, and apply them so that is it a lifestyle change, not a DIET.

The word DIET signifies depriving yourself of things you want/need. The South Beach diet does not do that (after the first 2 weeks) in my opinion. Looking at it, I think it's a good plan, but, the first 2 weeks might not go too well with the CPAT/Fire it Up Training plan because you might need more food. If you feel tired, jittery, weak, or flat, you'll be the first to know.

How much weight do you really want to lose? This society gives us women this crazy idea of what we are supposed to look like. Let me tell you, doing the job you are setting out to do does not equal looking like Jennifer Aniston. Too weak, too skinny.

So, you are just going to have to get over form and concentrate on function.

If you are training hard, and properly, you will increase your muscle mass, and your metabolism. Your fat will melt away. Don't deprive yourself of good, healthy food, just sugar, saturated fat, processed food (like flour) and especially hydrogenated fats.

Eat your fruits and veggies raw as much as possible, and eat plenty of whole grains and fish.

Best of luck!

Dr. Jen

Author of Fire it Up!

www.fireagility.com

I just wanted to say that a few months ago I wrote about me being pregnant, well i just want to announce the birth of my daughter, Jasmine Alexandra born may 24, 2005 at 13:30 in Washington hosp ctr in dc.

I also want to ask if there is anyone dealing with husbands/boyfriends who are having problems dealing with their women working, sleeping in the firehouse or just being a working women in the firehouse period? What can I say to him? He always thinks something is going on, I love him and I would never do that, I dont even get down like that.

Jessica

I work for St. George FD in Baton Rouge and all agencies have been helping with rescue efforts. There are many people still needing to be rescued in south Louisiana that is not being broadcast on the news. If you are an IAFF member, they have organized rescue efforts, and also at the LSU Fire and Emergency Training Facility.

Ferrara Fire Apparatus www.ferrarafire.com is collecting items for rescue wrkers. FEMA is not assisting firefighters. I repeat, FEMA is not assisting firefighters. If you come down here, you need to go through IAFF or LSU. FEMA will place your recovering bodies in NOLA instead of rescuing those that still need help in other areas.

If you want to donate items, go to Ferrara's site. It lists items needed for the rescue workers, including those that come from out of state.

If you should travel down here, be advised that there is a fuel shortage, drinking water shortage (bottled), and bread will be hard to find. Bring a tent, as well as MREs (if you can find them), and be prepared to stay in harsh conditions. The soldiers coming in from Iraq said they were staying in luxury compared to down here.

Also, if you have a gun and know how to use it, I would suggest packing it with you. Have your shots up to date. Do your best to stay OUT of the water, if at all possible. If you get into the water, treat yourself as if you have been contaminated with a chemical. We are trying to keep antibacterial wipes and hand gel on all personnel.

You must be mentally prepared to come down here. This is not the time to try and prove anything to anyone. It is 9/11 tenfold. I am not writing this to scare anyone off (or offend), I just want you to all know what you would be facing.

There are many fires in the city, as many as 20 a day. Ground efforts are virtually useless and bucket drops are being made to prevent exposures.

Think about this very seriously before venturing down here. If you decide to come down, I believe I speak for our entire state.... Thank you.

You are free to email me if you decide to come down here. I can give you directions where to go and such. At this time, I am not extending my hospitality at home because I have small children who have already been affected by this tragedy, and we did not even lose our home as many of our brothers and sisters in the fire service have. I will, however, try to find accommodations at local fire stations for you. I would also like to meet any of you who do come down.

My email address is travelingff@aol.com

Thank you all for your thoughts and donations during this awful time.

Shannon

I need some information about civil rights! I am a female volunteer , was just suspended from duty for lodging a complaint against a career firefighter in same dept., what do I do now!?

Daryl

HI Latina,

This is what I know about DHEA: dehydro-epandro-sterone. It is produced by the adrenals (from cholesterol) and in smaller amounts in the ovaries. It is important in the manufacturing of estrogen and testosterone.

It helps maintain skin, bone, and muscle. It fights infection by building immune function and T-cells. It is used instead of hormone therapy in menapause. Women who are low in DHEA are at a higher risk for breast cancer. It is often used as an anti-aging substance and for increasing energy and libido. It lowers serum cholesterol. In men, studies show it betters heart health. However, women with a high DHEA level appear to have a higher risk of heart disease.

DHEA does have a few side effects. Most notable in my mind: if you take too much, it surpresses your body's ability to make its own. People who do have good results usually have to continue taking it for the rest of their lives for the positive effects to continue. Adult acne and excess body and facial hair are a common side effects. The dosage for men is 30 mg for men and 15 mg for women. Most doctors prescribe it along with estrogen, progesterone and testosterone.

DHEA supplements are made from wild yam sterols. Synthesized progesterone is made from these same yams. So, apparently there is something linking the 2.

I have not taken DHEA for size or strength. Nor have I taken melatonin for sleeping. Many people do both. I would be concerned, first and foremost, that upsetting the balance of hormones in the body could cause you to not make enough later.

My big concern for you would be: would you take it while you were pregnant and nursing? Those are both exhausting times, and if you have messed up the delicate balance beforehand, how will it effect you when you go off?

I have taken Creatine for a short time, and noticed a pretty good difference in strength and stamina. Research supports my finding. BUT, it may create electrolyte imbalance. Creatine draws on water from other parts of the body, and puts it in the muscle. When using, drink extra water.

Given the choice, I would pick the Creatine.

That's about all I know. I hope it helps.

Dr.Jen

www.fireagility.com

Does anyone know anything about female firefighters taking DHEA supplement?

I have a hard time holding onto my muscle and I just graduated from my College firefighter 1 academy in May 05. I want to put a little more muscle on me as I struggled in the academy to keep it on me, but I want to be safe in doing it. I have been researching DHEA and my significant other who is also a firefighter has used it and gained much muscle and felt very good. I want to try it but I want to know if anyone else knows anything about it first. Since I want to have children in 4 years and I will need to get my muscle back quickly after I have them to get back into action.

What does everyone suggest, because I have tried diets high in protein lifting weights and cardio also I am a certified AFFA personal trainer.

All responses would be greatly appreciated.

Latina

Hi Krissy,

I am also a firefighter in Oregon, but in a much smaller department. We have 6 female firefighters here. I wish there was an easy answer for your situations and I wish that I had encouraging words for you, but I feel often as if I am in the same position you are. Generally, most of the men I work with are good guys, and treat me well around the station. Sometimes though I feel like I am not taken seriously, even though I have just as much education and experience (or more than) most of the men I work with. Sometimes, I feel like when there is a job on a fire scene that needs to get done, I am passed by for someone else, or when volunteers are needed, I am not chosen. I feel as if I am generally accepted at work, and I get along with everyone I work with. I am the only female at my station, so there are times that I feel like I dont fit in, and that people have to adjust to my presence.

Although I dont have a solution to offer, I just wanted to let you know that I understand where you are coming from. Let me know if you hear any good advise.

Shannon

I too love this job and I can only begin to imagine what you have been going through.

I truly believe that the right therapist could help you through all of this. Please find one that you connect with even if you have to go through a bunch of them to get the right fit.

The fire service needs women that have the passion for this career that you obviously have. Don't give up. We need you.

Donna

You're doing a good job researching your future career, but don't be fooled by movies. Often enough, you'll see fully engulfed fires with little to no smoke inside, which is unrealistic. I believe I saw a man not wearing a Nomex hood with a SCBA... Also, don't be too swayed by the "heroism" and "glory" of firefighting. Yes, you'll have that, but it's a lot of hard work, pain, and personal suffering. They don't show you all the death and anguish that is reality on a fire scene. If I were you, I'd talk to some real firefighters and also a school counselor. They may have info for schooling amounst other things.

Tina L.

Hello dear,

It's nice to see that there are young women interested in the fire service. Feel free to call us "fire fighters" rather than women firemen. I really think you should find some local firefighters, be it volunteer or professional, and strike up a chat. Even better if you can find some female firefighters.

Tina

Deya-

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a mom and a firefighter. When you decide to have a family, it will not be easy, but between you and your husband it can work out if you both try.

I am currently pregnant with my first. My husband and I are both firefighters. Our shifts run differently so one of us will always be home. There maybe one or two days a month we may have to use family or close friend for a sitter, but it's well worth it when you can have both a family and carreer.

You may want to look into meeting firefighters with stay home spouses. Some will jump at the chance to make a little extra money and also understand your work schedule and demands.

I'll try to keep you posted as things progress and I find out what works and what doesn't. :)

Carmel-

I have had great success with Warrington duty and turnout boots. They are so comfortable. You can't go wrong with them.

Best of luck. Carmel

Hi! I am preping for CPAT in the Washington, DC area. Would love to find someone to workout with. shoot me an

Patti Knerr

Erica -

Here's a couple tips that helped me get my 5-5, 140-pound self through the CPAT.

First, make sure you have the cardiovascular fitness to get past the step mill with enough legs to complete the rest of the course. I found a 17-story building in my town and climbed it every week. Hill running is also good, or any running that incorporates intense anaerobic portions. If you are not already doing an upper body workout, start now. Focus on grip, arm, back and shoulder strength. Also, improving technique can shave off seconds. Find someone who can make sure you are swinging the sledgehammer effectively. Try to get the inside scoop on the maze before your CPAT. For the pull-down machine, use your legs to lift it (by putting one hand on the bottom of the pole) and then hang on it to pull down (like ringing a church bell). Your arms and grip will be whipped by this point.

Sara

Deya -

As for chainsaws, I used to have problems starting them. I realized it was more a matter of technique than physique. I'm a city girl who never started any machine with a cord before getting to the academy. Most of the guy firefighters I know are country boys who grew up with saws and lawnmowers so it was easy for them.

Have you tried stepping through the hand-hole or kneeling on the top of the saw to hold it steady while you pull? (not sure how the Stihl is configured) How about the choke? Are you shutting off the choke as soon as the engine turns over and then pulling some more? I used to flood the motor a lot until someone showed me this. I'm sure you can do it if you keep practicing.

It can't hurt to add some shoulder and back strength too. Military presses, lateral raises, rows and pull-downs will help you show that saw who's boss.

Sara

Erica,

I am a female fire fighter from Toronto, Canada. There is a page on the City of Markham website that shows you how to train specifically for the CPAT test. Also if you go on the CPAT website they have suggestions for training. If you are really serious, hire a personal trainer and give them details of the test and how long you have to get ready for it. They will put a program together for you for these specific needs! Good Luck! I'm sure you will kick butt!!!

Tamara

Thanks! I would love the brand name... thanks also to the woman wit the suggestion of the photocopy of her hand! I'll try that too!

Steph

You should check out the CPAT workout. I was having trouble in my college academy with the physical agility; I started that training and by the end of the academy this May I had shattered my time from a 10:00 to 4:52. It consists of circuit training which helps us women. I'm a 21 years old 5'5 140-pound Latina and I am not a big person and I did everything all of the men did and I put in double the time, but hey I got the same certificate on May 11, 2005 so don't ever let anyone stop you from your dreams. Good luck! If you have any questions =)

Deya

Hey, I am right near you! I just graduated from the Los Medanos College fire academy. You should use the CPAT training program -- look it up on yahoo.com. I used that in the academy and I am 5'5 140 pounds. I am not too muscular either, but I handled my own. It's actually good to lose weight because you are circuit training. Good luck! Any questions =)

Deya

Does anyone have any tips on starting stihl chainsaws? I am having trouble starting the chainsaw. When I was in the academy I could throw the 24-foot ladder and do everything else, but I struggled with the chainsaw. I had an instructor tell me it was my strength, but my boyfriend who is a firefighter said that is not true. I know it is based on technique, but what is the best way for a 5'5" 140-pound female with medium muscular build? I am going crazy because I would be sitting there throwing my arm out for an hour only to start it once. What is the problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated please with a response.

Deya

My significant other and I want to have children in the next four years. I am just getting hired as a firefighter and he has been one for 7 years. We both want 2 children. I don't know how we will do it if we are both firefighters. I know we will need family support, but anyone with advice who knows anything please send it my way.

Also I am nervous because I am a 5'5" 140-pound female with a medium muscular build and I am nervous that I will get too heavy or lose the little bit of muscle that I have (I have a hard time keeping muscle). I am in the Bay area in northern California, and firefighting is very competitive here. I have a love for firefighting and want to keep my relationship with my husband healthy and also be there for my children and stay in shape to continue my job. Any advice would be greatly appreciated if anyone can Thank you =)

Deya

My husband is a firefighter and I just finished the fire academy. People filled my head with I couldn't do it and I found a way to be mentally strong through it all. You will see how much your body can do. We really under estimate ourselves. I did things that when I looked back on it I was like I did that =) if you need motivation you can e-mail me because I know it is tough but if you really want it you will do it. One thing I can say is once you mentally psych yourself out your body will quit so always be positive and do not stop or quit keep going until your body actually gives up.

Deya

I am a 20 year old female from Nova Scotia, Canada. I have just finished my Level 1/2 cert and am doing my on job training which is required as part of my fire school training. Despite all my fitness training both at the gym and at the school, I don't think I am strong enough to pass the CPAT. I have about 2 months before I can do a practice run of the CPAT. Can anybody pass along some pointers, or know of a website which might offer some suggestions?

Thanks so much, Erica

Melissa,

I am an oncall firefighter in Michigan (and am the type that also holds a full time job in another field.)

A lot of the younger firefighters that I've known that are pursuing a full time career will start out working for a volunteer or paid oncall department. Typically, basic training including Firefighter 1&2, EMT Basic (some places still MFR), and HazMat are sponsored by the department once you are hired. If your department allows you to become active on hire, you may also be issued gear.

The greater benefit of joining a department is that you will have people outside of the classroom to pass along experience, and give you tips (especially with equipment). If you are active, you can also learn a lot from being on scene.

Hope this helps, Jane

Hi; my name is Melissa. I'm a 20-year-old single mom from Shelby, Michigan.

I'm currently in EMT Basic classes and looking to go into the Fire Academy in the spring. I'm very excited; however I'm having trouble finding help with financial aid for the academy. I tried government grants and have been looking for scholarships but so far everyone will only help with college classes not an academy. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for the agility test to get into the academy? It's very completive here: only 30 people get in, and it's not very often a woman passes the agility test. What should I expect for the test? Any suggestions on how to make sure I'm noticed and taken seriously, not just written off for being a female?

Thanks, Melissa

Be VERY sure that you will actually receive that 60% of your pay. When I was pregnant 2 1/2 yeas ago I was told the same thing. I went out at 27 weeks of pregnany thinking that when my sick leave and vacation leave ran out that I would get 66 2/3 of my pay. The INSURANCE CARRIER said that pregnancy is not a disability and they DID NOT PAY! My fire district's response was essentially "Oh well. Too bad." I was looking at 4 months WITHOUT PAY! Thankfully, sadly, my back went out as a complication of pregnancy and only then did the insurance pay. Please. Be VERY certain that the insurance company covers pregnancy whether it is a complicated pregnancy or not.

Burned in St. Louis County, Laurie

Shelby,

XS gloves have worked very well for me. I too have long fingers and a small palm. I faxed a hand print to the company that they were purchased through and they sent me the glove that fit.

Boots ... ah yes. same issue also. I had to keep trying them on in front of the logistics guy, shaking my foot and have him watch me launch them off my foot for several pairs. It took 6 months but he finally found a women's boot that fit. I can't read the name anymore so I'm trying to get hold of him to see what he bought.

K8

Thank you to all of you who have given feedback concerning the pregnancy issue. The people I work for are making it very difficult. I have discovered that my chief has been telling lies. He has been telling me that Human Resources for our company has been telling him what to do. Well, I decided to speak to them myself, and they told me that they have said no such things and that they don't know where he is coming up with his information. It is pretty discouraging to work for someone who consistently lies to your face. Anyhow, Human Resources still does not have a complete answer for me. At this point they have told me that they would send me home as soon as I declared the pregnancy, and put me on short-term disability for six months, and then I would have to file a long-term disability claim for the remainder of the pregnancy. Throughout all of this I would only be collecting 60% of my pay. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but I guess it is better than nothing. I guess the thing that makes me mad, is that they would have the ability to put me in a light duty position and allow me to work straight days, but they would choose not to and send me home. It's just frustrating to know that they care very little for their firefighters.

Thank you all again for your input. If you have any more, please let me know. I guess I'll quit venting now.

Shayly

Hey everyone, first, I had a great time at the WFS conference in DC. (My first.) I met so many great people.

My question is this, I am the first female to be hired by my great department (of 80 men). The supplies guy is having a hard time finding me replacement duty (day) and structural (or even dual) fire boots. I have a pretty normal foot (8 in women's, D width) and have had no problems before, but I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions where to get them?

My structural boots come off while searching, and my duty boots are so old the zippers won't stay up, there is no tread on the bottoms, and they make big blisters on the side of my toe. This has taken 2.5 yrs and still the supplies guy is having problems. He tells my officer he's tried "7 distributors and none fit her". Actually, I believe he's tried 3 and all men only. I guess if you go shopping in the "tighty whity section" of 7 department stores, you're never going to find a thong!" Sorry, just a little frustrated. :)

Thanks for any help, can't wait to see you all at the next conference!!

Lisa

Hello everyone!

I am currently a firefighter/EMT for BP Refinery in Texas City, Texas. I would like to make the move from industrial ff to municipal but have met a road block. Because I am 40 I do not meet the age requirement of 18-35 which to me is discrimination even if they state that they do not discriminate because of age. I'm not sure if this is just something that is followed in Texas or other states also. If anyone can give me some advice around this problem I would greatly appreciate it.

Take care and be safe, Tenna

I've found X-small gloves work best for me. Most glove companies have them. I can get the actual brand I wear if you want. Let me know.

Melissa

Hey there Beth,

I am 18 years old and live in Benicia (not far from you) and have been a member of the explorer post here for three years, I've gone to two CFEA (California Fire Exploring Association) Academies and will be moving to Los Angeles in August to get my AS in Fire Science and also further my EMT to a licensed paramedic.

Benicia doesn't really have any standards for like how much working out and stuff that we need to do, but because I'm moving to So-Cal and want to eventually get in on their Explorer post, I've been doing running every other day for an hour, I do the stair climber for 35 minutes, and then I do alot of lat pulls, and free weights to keep my upper body strength up to speed. I'm not a little thing either, I've always battled with my weight, I'm 5'5 and at one point was 200 pounds which I knew wouldn't cut it in the fire service, so now I'm down to 170 or so and I'm doing great. if you need any help with anything dont be afraid to

Melissa

I have found two very good articles discussing the impact of harassment and discrimination on individuals and organizations beyond just the legal implications. The first is written by Dr. Portia Rawles and is titled "Discrimination More Than a Legal Concern". You can find it by clicking here.

The second article is written by Thomas M. Cunningham, Fire Officer IV, U.S. Naval Academy Fire Department. It is titled "Bully for you" and can be accessed by clicking here.

Both articles emphasize the physical, psychological, and social aspects of discrimination and harassment, not just the legal potential for lwsuits.

Nat

Hey there;

This is probably too late, but the Calgary Fire Department has just had its first woman go into a light duty position. She went to training and then had her child. I had no idea how lucky we are in Canada to have the mandatory one year paid maternity leave, but now that I read about these poor women in the US I am shocked. The lady (now there are 4 off) will (should) be allowed back to work with no questions asked. The only catch might be that our FD doctor might have to approve her to come back. I also wait to see how they are treated. All I know for sure is that maternity leave is law and that your job must be given back to you at the end of your leave.

hilary

Get up and RUN.

I was the youngest female volunteer deputy fire chief in my province (like a state)! It was great. Some of the guys were asses but the majority were glad that I had the guts to try. True that you learn from everything, and guys told me afterwards that they voted for me but were afraid to tell the other guys. Take a stand, you will do a great job and learn lots, win or lose. I also must add, that if we don't stand up and try for positions of power we are choosing not to elicit change. Do we honestly think the whole fire-MAN world will change without our holding their feet to the flame??? Good luck.

Hilary

Does anyone have any suggestions for a brand of structural firefighting gloves that fit a woman's hand? I am tall, so I have long fingers, but a small palm. I currently wear small, though they are still baggy around the hand and the fingers barely cover the second knuckle. The mediums are way too big and fall off. I can't be the only one with this problem. I would love any suggestions.

Thanks,

Steph

I am the only female firefighter of 46 paid in my town. I have 13 years on the job. Eight years ago I became pregnant and realized our contract didn't address maternity leave. You need to find out what your state has for a Family Leave Act. In my state (CT) my employer, because of the number of employees, could allow me to use my vacation and sick time. I was also allowed to take a six-week unpaid leave with another optional six weeks unpaid without losing medical benifits or seniority. My department does not have a light duty position. I worked until one month before both my children were born.

The important thing is to find out what your state's Family Leave Act entails.

Eileen

I just read your post. Three years ago, I had my third child. I stayed working on the rigs for all of my pregnancies; with my third I was about six months when I went to light duty. A few hours after my son was born, we found out that he had a congenital heart defect, Tetralogy of Fallot, which includes, among other abnormalities, a ventricular septal defect.

I wondered after the diagnosis if I had caused it. All of the doctors said that it didn't have anything to do with me being a firefighter. I wonder now. I have been an Equipment Operator for five years. I did not go into any fires during this pregnancy.

I stayed on the rigs because I knew that I would have more stress on light duty: the guys basically shun us when we are on light duty. I am not planning any more children.

For all of you out there, ask your doctors about the heart defect issue. It's strange to me that there was a study on male firefighters having a higher incidence.

Carla

Hi Beth,

I am an SJFD Engineer working at Station 21B.I am not currently involved with the Explorers, but am certainly willing to talk to you about your aspirations. I am back to work on Tues this week, if you'd like to give me a call.

Antoinette

About 3 years ago I was raped, and since then I have suffered from PTSD and on light duty. I have been a FF for all most 10 years now with such a passion for the heat and had such ambition with great accomplishments throughout my career. Now recently a certain incident occured where I was reminded of my incident which threw me in a vortex to the rape itself. I am in the military now, and I am being medically dischared due to the PTSD. Now I feel so worthless. I can't even put a mask on with out freaking out, and refuse to carry a burden of letting anyone down because I have a panic attack durring an emergency. I cry because I love this career especially on the operational side. Now because of this I fear that no one will ever hire me, or worse I won't be able to wear a mask and feel the heat ever again. Any advice?

S.

The dept. I retired from has had several FF's that got pregnant. The only person we could take direction from about their condition to work was their doctor. The fire chief never made a decision about working conditions unless the doctor told us to do something. We felt it was like any other medical condition,it's between the patient and the doctor what to do. One of the FF drove an ARFF unit darn near until she delivered. Some others chose to go into dispatch. They suffered a loss in pay due to fewer work hours, but all went back on shift as soon as they could.

Bigjim

Extreme Makeover is seeking female rescue workers in the United States who are intersted in getting an Extreme Makeover.

For more information please e-mail Talia at . Include your name, age, occpation, phone numbers and what you would like to change from head to toe.

Thanks!!

Talia

Training alone will not stop harassment or hostile work environments. Sometimes, sexual harassment training just seems to drive a deeper wedge among the work force. Resentment increases over the perception that some "groups" of people deserve special protection or treatment. Instead of helping to integrate women into the fire service, in many ways it further alienates us by setting us apart from others by virtue of gender alone, regardless of professional abilities. And then with all of the emphasis on lawsuits and legal liabilities in harassment training, even fewer people are willing to accept or interact with you for fear of involvement in a lawsuit.

Maybe "teamwork" training would be the better approach. The reality is that harassment will continue until attitudes change and we truly begin to value and respect each other as firefighters and people regardless of gender. This has to happen in ALL levels of an organization. And here is another great concept: accountability. Not just accountability of the person being harassed to report the incident(s) but accountability of management to take effective corrective action so that the abuse stops and does not escalate further. I don't know what the answer is to get to that point. My personal experience has been that reporting concerns/complaints leads to an increase in the severity, frequency, and scope of the hostile work environment.

I do know that nothing good comes out of harassment. It is destructive, divisive, vindictive, and breeds resentment while destroying trust and diminishing quality of service. It is a cancer that spreads far too easily, and few people want to address it.

Marley had to make a choice based on events that probably should have never happened to begin with. It is not her responsibility to be a victim of harassment and to tolerate it because she is female. It is the responsibility of the department she works for and the people she works with to treat her with the same care, respect, and support that they would demand for themselves.

Nat

I know this sounds mad, but my friend Tory met a firefighter, and I would like to contact her and surprise Tory.

The firefighter is called Nicky or Sarah, and she lives and works in eastern Virginia on the coast. She is about 5 ft 7 inches, blonde short hair and slim build with blue eyes.

They met in Palm Springs at the end of March this year. The firefighter dropped her bracelet; Tory has it, and would love to return it to her. The firefighter has been ill recently, and Tory was inspired by her braveness.

Tory and myself both live in England. If you can help us please get in touch.

Sharon

Marley, I am really sorry you had to leave a job you loved. What happened to you is wrong, and I hope you will find some way to rejoin the fire service in an environment where your safety and sanity are not put at risk by those who are supposed to have your back.

Jennifer, your attitude saddens me, too. Marley felt her safety, and even possibly her life, were at risk. She had no support within the department, and made a painful choice to take care of herself in the best way she saw.

You may disagree with that, and feel she should have fought harder and longer. I would have liked her to do so, too. But I wasn't the one in that position. It was Marley's call to make.

Most importantly, her "failure" to continue fighting is NOT "why women get harassed even more." Harassment continues because some fire departments (and other employers) still don't take seriously their legal responsibility to stop it. They don't do the training that would prevent it, and they don't take proper action when it occurs.

Whether you agree with Marley's decision to leave the job or not, let's put the blame for harassment where it belongs: on the harassers and their employers, and not on those who are targeted and beaten down by it.

Old Fire Gal

I can't believe you quit. We have all had harassment but you toughen up and they stop. You show them that they can't push you around and they stop. Now they have won, this is why women get harassed even more. If you don't stand up for yourself, no one will.

Jennifer

Even though my department can be pretty short-minded, I have to say that the pregnancy issue was an easy one to deal with. I found myself becoming a single mom and I spoke to my Chief at the time, I was told that I could even bring my child to the station and perform light duty.

Luckily, I have a cool sister that lived with me and would bring my infant daughter out to me so that she could nurse, and I was allowed to take days when I needed them. A few years later, I was asked by a close friend if I would consider being a surrogate for her and her husband. I spoke to Personnel and was shocked that they would be willing to keep me on light duty untill the baby was born, and back to full duty when I felt able. As luck would have it, they tried in vitro and had a child on their own, but I have never forgotten how willing that they were to work with me in that situation.

It seems to me that most of the departments that I have read about in the message boards here are so small-minded and unwilling to work with us women. I realized early in my career that this is truly a man's job that caters to their needs and issues. We really do get penalized for being the childbearers of the family.

Good Luck to all.

Marlene

Marie Claire magazine is seeking female rescue workers in the New York tri-state area for a larger story on body image. Please get in touch with the writer if you'd like more information.

Email Mackenzie at . Include your name, age, occupation, phone numbers and a clear/flattering photograph.

Thanks!!

I'm currently 1st Lieutenant in my volunteer department. We hold elections in November for all offices. I've been a line officer for three years and have been in my department for five years. I'm looking to advance. I want to run for Assistant Chief, but have heard some rumors that the older guys aren't ready for a "woman chief," that I should give the the guy who is Captain a chance and run for the next office (which is Captain), and that I'm not ready for that position.

I honestly believe that in all positions you learn something about the fire service. Of course, being the person that I am, all these comments just make me want to run against this guy who would run for Ass't Chief even more. I've heard many of the members don't want him as Ass't Chief because he doesn't treat others very well, he thinks he knows it all, and he thinks he deserves it.

I'm not sure if I should run against him. It's not like he is that friendly with me. We have alot of animosity on our junior line officers... you know, the "clique." Any advice would be helpful and much appreciated!!!

Tina

Hi All,

I am looking for some opinions and/or thoughts. I am working on developing a program on leadership and career development for women in the fire service in my state, New Hampshire. We have fewer than 15 full-time women on the job, including myself. I work for the second-biggest city in the state, and we employ only one other woman on the job.

My goal with this program is to target the women trying to get into the fire service in not only New Hampshire, but also Massachusetts, Maine and Vermont. There is nothing like this around, and we now average 30-40 women taking the CPAT test here each year (only one has passed so far.)

I am very close to getting the State Fire Academy on board with this, and have the full support of many of the departments in the state. I am looking for any suggestions/input that you may have! A few topics that we will include are, passing/training for the CPAT, hiring interviews, being a FFOP, firehouse tradition, women's integration into the fire service, goalsetting, FD career paths, and networking. There are others as well, but these are a few. This is scheduled to run for two days as of right now.

Please feel free to with your thoughts!

Thanks in advance!!!!

Jess

Michelle and Kelly,

Thank you both for the info. Since my post I have been looking into my company's policies. One big problem that I am facing is that I do not work for a city department; I work at a national laboratory in Idaho. My department is basically awarded by the Department of Energy to the highest bidder for the lab.

As far as injured firefighters goes, if the injury was on the job then they are assigned to light duty. With that you work Mon thru Thurs 10 hours a day with guaranteed overtime. If the injury occurred off the job, then the firefighter is required to use up the STD and vacation hours that they have accrued. If you run out, that is your problem.

The big problem that I will run into as far as restrictions, is that there is potential to be exposed to radiation during a response, and I just don't think the docs are gonna let that fly. The thing that blows me away, is that in looking at the company policy for the rest of the facility, even janitors are reassigned if the docs put them on restriction; they are not sent home til after they deliver. I started as a janitor, and I know that it doesn't get much easier than that. It just bothers me that they are willing to help out other employee's, but they could care less about the firefighters.

Well, I have babbled enough. I do appreciate all your input and would appreciate any more that you could offer.

Thanks again!

Shayly

I think that the best time I was ever fit was when I was training at the academy. After I have my baby, how long does it take to shed those pounds? And what's the best exercise to do while I'm home recuperating and when I go back to full duty?

Jessica

I found the ceiling breach and pull to be difficult until I realized the trick is not to use upper body to push and pull, but to hold the pike pole close to your body to get under it and push up and sit down with your weight on the pull. I have learned to use my legs as much as I can in passing the CPAT and in the fire service. Women have a very strong and resistant lower body, and I have learned to use that to my advantage.

Katie

At our department, we are given the choice of going to light duty, which is 12 hours in the office and then 12 hours of being the battalion aid. Or we can go to an ambulance, if our doctor does not put us on any restrictions. Also, if your doctor does put you on light duty, you should be treated the same as everyone else is who has to go on light duty. Our problem is that after we have our baby, we get 40 hours off and then have to use vacation time or trades or sick time for the rest of our maternity leave.

Kelly Elder

I went back to visit the senior man today.

I didn't go near the apparatus. Given the condition of the building and grounds, it would break my heart to see the trucks ignored, too. Besides, if I'm nowhere near them I can't be blamed for anything that might happen to them.

"Damn, those guys are lazy," he told me. Who did he think was doing all the work around there?

I hope they're happy with what they've got left, because I'm starting to think they'd have been better off with just me than the two of them, even though I know a certain number of warm bodies is needed.

Be safe, everyone. I need some time off.

Marley

Hi! I'm 15 years old... I'm from Bulgaria and I don't speak English very well. I want to become a firefighter, but I don't know how to start! Can you help me?

Vania